Political views within the forums

[Bodger BrianParticipant @bodgerbrian]

Just wondering what the opinion is of political views within the forums.

I engage in model engineering and participate in these forums as an escape from the 'outside world' and don't expect to see (or want to see) what another member's political views are, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. If a thread has a title that makes it obvious that it contains politics, fair enough, I can ignore it & move on.

What bugs me is the type of thread about a subject that I'm interested in – I start reading it, and then suddenly I'm faced with unwanted politics. A classic example is the recently revived thread on air guns. Despite a contributor pleading for members not to start a rant about pros & cons of legislation, posts soon appeared doing exactly that!

I lurk in another forum (nothing to do with model engineering) that once had a sub-forum (a bit like the Tea Room) specifically for politics. Unfortunately the sub-forum had to be shut down as it got rather tempestuous and now comments on politics are banned totally. Excellent idea….

Thoughts?

Brian

[Bodger BrianParticipant @bodgerbrian]

[NJHParticipant @njh]

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that this is NOT the place for politics. I don’t think that anyone’s political views have any relevance to the subject – what we all have in common is an interest in MODEL ENGINEERING!

If any political party likes to promise to introduce legislation especially favourable to model engineers then I may well change my alliegence….. however I’ve just glanced out of the window and seen a squadron of pigs fly past!

Norman

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Posted by NJH on 12/07/2018 14:01:20:

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that this is NOT the place for politics. I don’t think that anyone’s political views have any relevance to the subject – what we all have in common is an interest in MODEL ENGINEERING!

If any political party likes to promise to introduce legislation especially favourable to model engineers then I may well change my alliegence….. however I’ve just glanced out of the window and seen a squadron of pigs fly past!

Norman

Here, here….life is too short..let's stick with m.e. stuff..

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

most of the stuff being objected to is paranoid conspiracy theory, let's have no more

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I come on here to see and chat MODEL ENGINEERING, I dont want to see POLITICS, RELIGION and the like, this is not the place for it. I think any post that shows or states a persons Political or Religious views or leanings should be deleted.

Ron

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

…ditto…

George.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Politiks is a no-no in here

It would be fascinating, but too divisive

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Politics and religion are two of the most emotive subjects which generate a great deal more heat than light.

Although people will fight over just about anything, I'd agree with those who say keep these subjects out, even from threads ostensibly about something else.

Edited By Mick B1 on 12/07/2018 14:52:54

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

I'm afraid I have to differ, but with a qualification.

There are instances where politics and model engineering intersect, in particular where legislation directly affects the hobby. In the UK this may shortly affect access to acids and may, for somebody with mobility issues such as myself, potentially make it very difficult to buy some tools. I am sure the same must apply in other countries, particularly where pressure vessel legislation is concerned.

Having said that, although the legislation that affects us may be in response to outside factors including terrorism, smuggling, violent crime, drugs etc. discussion of those areas, and of the policing and sentencing policies concerned with them seems to me to be completely outside the scope of model engineering.

As far as religious views are concerned, how strictly would moderators actually like to enforce a prohibition? Should a post that says for example "I pray he recovers soon" be deleted? How about references to "angels on a pinhead", Ockham's razor or just a quotation? (I am fond of Nietzsche's "There are no facts, only interpretations" – what does this say of my religious or non-religious views?)

Brian

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Politics best avoided. I have a good friend. We get on really well, but he's still first up against the wall when I'm in charge…

[Bodger BrianParticipant @bodgerbrian]

Posted by Brian G on 12/07/2018 14:55:54:

I'm afraid I have to differ, but with a qualification.

There are instances where politics and model engineering intersect, in particular where legislation directly affects the hobby. In the UK this may shortly affect access to acids and may, for somebody with mobility issues such as myself, potentially make it very difficult to buy some tools. I am sure the same must apply in other countries, particularly where pressure vessel legislation is concerned.

Fair comment but I would add a qualification of my own. Rational discussion is one thing but I fail to see the need to use phrases like 'namby-pamby' & 'police state'. Unfortunately as soon as politics rears it's head, rationality usually goes out of the window.

Brian

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

To be honest Brian I was thinking more about discussion on how to work within legislation. Moans about it don't actually do any good (apart from letting the complainer let off steam), whilst discussion of alternatives, compliance schemes and similar is useful to us yet could potentially be banned under a blanket ban on "politics", especially where proposals have not yet become law.

An example of a subject I would personally like to see permitted is whether there will be time before March for agreement on mutual recognition of conformity assessment to be negotiated between the EU and UK or whether UK CE marking will become non-compliant. I imagine this may be relevant to any commercial boilermakers but it has not been mentioned so far in the national press.

Brian

[MonomanParticipant @monoman]

Simple rule in our family, insisted upon by my grandfather: those who offended were barred from the family workshop for life. (he died in 1941) . Since most of the family worked/work in engineering this was/is a serious matter.

'Never discuss religion, politics or money"

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I enjoy a political or religious debate but this is not the place for either. The tea room provides a space to discuss matters in a light hearted atmosphere but topics are usually but sometimes very tenuously hobby related. Many forums have threads that are well off the main subject of the forum. I look at forums as a bit like going down the pub, matters of interest are discussed and drift, you may start on football wander to cricket then a tv program then the state of youth today, thread drift is a fact of life and does annoy some people. Let's use the forum to pose questions related to the hobby, share information we think others may find useful and discuss hobby related topics. The forum has some threads that are barely hobby related like the Motorcycle and Aircraft threads but are very popular with the forum members.

Mike

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Well, thinking about it, perhaps the key ought to be to use the grace and decency you'd use if you were talking at a club meeting, rather than necessarily restricting subject matter.

Arrogant and insulting expressions like 'namby-pamby' are always like to get an escalated response, and I'd suggest anyone comparing current UK to a 'Police State' obviously doesn't know what a real one is like.

The pub analogy might be a dodgy one – it depends on what the pubs you know are like!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

No sex, politics or religion, please.

Discussion of legislation relevant to our hobby is not politics, as long as people discuss the facts of its impact or otherwise.

We have had plenty of past discussion of health and safety issues, CE marking and recently issues around the purchase of blades and battery acid.

As for Brexit, discussion of the rights and wrongs is out – it will just lead to argument. Sensible discussion of things like impacts on the cost of imports etc.

On this last subject, it's clear that all the EU regulations etc. currently in UK law will remain part of UK law following Brexit. Any future changes will depend on the nature of Brexit AND if where allows changes new legislation will still need to pass through parliament. Even though a no-deal Brexit would immediately affect our imports and exports (quite what the actual impact would be, I have no idea!) but there would be no overnight change in UK regulatory regime.

Neil

[Chuck PickeringParticipant @chuckpickering45941]

Posted by Bodger Brian on 12/07/2018 13:25:06:.

I engage in model engineering and participate in these forums as an escape from the 'outside world' and don't expect to see (or want to see) what another member's political views are, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. If a thread has a title that makes it obvious that it contains politics, fair enough, I can ignore it & move on.

Thoughts?

Brian

My thoughts exactly…

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

We should pay great attention to both politics and religion,so as to be able to exclude both from as many things as possible. This is not the place for either of them,the pub for one,the place of worship [of your choice ] for the other.

This place is for SWARF !!

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Censorship of any topic is counterproductive.

How does one learn without discourse?

Seems silly to get uptight about discussing the things that can dominate life and you otherwise have little control over.

 

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 12/07/2018 20:12:51

[Dod MoleParticipant @georgeclarihew]

There are plenty other forums, soap boxes, pubs and the like for political spouting, discussion and usually before too long, abuse so keep it clear of this forum.

Unlike politics, this forum interests me. Am I sad or what?

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by Bodger Brian on 12/07/2018 13:25:06:

Just wondering what the opinion is of political views within the forums.

 

Does that include BSW/UNC/Metric coarse?

Edited By Mark Rand on 12/07/2018 23:00:40

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Alcoholic postings have been deleted, please keep on topic.

J

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

Posted by blowlamp on 12/07/2018 19:51:55:

Censorship of any topic is counterproductive.

How does one learn without discourse?

Seems silly to get uptight about discussing the things that can dominate life and you otherwise have little control over.

 

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 12/07/2018 20:12:51

 

I agree.

As, ostensibly, mature adults of a certain intellect, the discussions that naturally evolve on this forum should be largely auto regulatory. As has been seen many times, inappropriate comments tend to get ignored. If not, the perpetrator usually gets upset and says no more. We should be allowed to freely express ourselves, as in a 'normal' debate. The onus being on the individual to behave in an acceptable manner, following the usual unwritten rules of social engagement.

Pretty much a reflection of 'real world' group conversations.

On this particular thread topic, it saddens me that, already, some posts have been removed. These were posts made by established members of this forum, and was their contribution to this debate. I, for one, did not find any of those posts offensive. Thay were no more than light hearted flippancy, which is to be found in any 'normal' group conversation. Silencing those well established members appears to exclude them from this debate, which seems a bit heavy handed, and more than a little unfair.

One thing I enjoy about this forum, is how some threads get picked up and meander off and on topic, taking in a whole panapoly of asides along the way. If the parameters of staying focused and on topic are made too tight, I think it will become quite boring and deter many from joining in.

All the best,

Daniel

 

Edited By Daniel on 13/07/2018 07:55:48

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Some people can handle social chaos scenarios while others find it too much to bear and seriously struggle with it

Plus we all have hugely different levels of tolerance to various subject matters, both subjective and objective

The simplest complicated approach is to avoid thinking about it and generally stick to specific topics

This censors a lot but makes most posts readable and applicable

The simplest approach, as in nature, is to let chaos rule

This tends to produce a lot of garbage threads, like those facebook threads full of raving nonsense

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