Newbie: Can you buy a “desktop CNC Milling machine” for cutting steel?

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Hello

Newbie question: Can one buy a "desktop CNC milling machine" that will cut mild steel?

There seem to be a large number of new desktop CNC milling machines (e.g. https://www.bantamtools.com/cnc-milling-machine), but they all seem to be designed to cut relatively soft stuff like aluminium not stainless steel nor mild steel…

Budget: Ideally sub £800. Maybe say £1500 if pushed.

Thanks

J

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Have you enquired to that company? It will likely cut steel – but (much) more slowly and perhaps not for as long. It does say ‘optimised’.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

One of our other member sis just waiting delivery of a Shapeoko 4. Capable of cutting steel and stainless steel and just within budget. You can also get CNC Sherline machines which may suit your needs too. In both cases the depth and width of cut are quite small but this is offset somewhat by the high spindle speeds allowing a fast feed.

The Bantum you link too looks capable but at $4K a bit over your budget! The lower budget ones will do it but will take even smaller cuts and finish starts to decline as they get very low in the price range

Don't forget you will also need to learn CAD & CAM to get the most out of the machine as well as needing a reasonable understanding of feeds & speeds

 

Edited By JasonB on 15/04/2021 07:39:48

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That’s a very impressive demonstration, Jason

… and he also seems realistic about the limitations.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes they do seem to give some sound advice and have videos suggesting feeds and speeds for most common materials.

They also do another machine called the "Nomad" which is closer to the Bantum that John linked to being closer to a mill than gantry router but still over his budget but not by quite so much

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

As the "other forum member" referred to by Jason, can I just chip in a few thoughts and observations. I was extremely lucky to have won the Shapeoko router table in a competition and am pleased to be able to soon dip a toe into CNC. Having said that, I would encourage John Smith 47 to carefully investigate the extra expenditure involved in importing such a piece of equipment. In my own case, for example, although the basic machine itself didn't cost me personally, anything to purchase, I have had to source a 230V DeWalt router (B&Q @ £150) and am anticipating having to pay import duty and VAT plus a handling charge which could well be north of £300. So, if you are going to import a machine, bear this extra expense in mind – it could easily blow your budget.

Don't get me wrong – I'm not complaining. Far from it. The machine that I'll end up with is as capable as I can expect from any in the price range, possibly better. I'll still end up with a decent bit of kit for far less outlay than I would have paid, had I ordered it myself. But it's possible that I wouldn't have gone that route, had I not won it!

As Jason also pointed out, you will have to become at least 'au fait' with CAD and CAM to make any use of it – no mean feat in itself and could involve extra costs. Another part of my prize was an upgrade to my Alibre Atom CAD licence to their Workshop package for the production of Gcode. When I mentioned to the Alibre CEO that I was intending to make items from aluminium, he said that I might need something a bit more heavyweight. To that end, I'm dabbling with Fusion 360 CAM (and finding it hard to get to grips with!)

As an aside, the Shapeoko is not a flimsy bit of kit. According to the shipping details it weighs in at 32.21kg and the pack is 33" x 26" x 10". It is due to arrive on or before Tuesday, 20th, so if anybody is interested, I'll report back on my progress with it and probably do a couple of videos for my YouTube channel, too.

I'm currently working on a conversion of the standard DeWalt ¼" collet to accept an ER11 collet system so that I can use a wider range of cutters than would be possible with the supplied collet.

John

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

John Hinckley

i built a cnc router many years ago thinking I’d use one of my routers in it

after 10 minutes it gets very tiring ( the noise)

try and buy a water cooled spindle and vfd which will also have a er11 with it

much better

watercooled much quieter than air cooled

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

John, I'd be interested in a "adventures with my Shapeoko" thread and feel free to ask any F360 questions.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Ian,

I have an air-cooled spindle with variable-speed control and ER11 chuck already which I intend trying with the router. (It was cheap!) At the moment it's set up for use in the lathe. In fact I'm going to experiment with it to mill the new thread in the ER11 collet for the conversion of the DeWalt router to ER11 collet operation.

Maybe a water-cooled version will be on the cards later – my wife is already tut-tutting about the costs so far!  Lucky I know she's only joking – or is she?

Jason,

I'll start a new thread when I've got it all set up, but I'll video the process and also put a few pictures in an album as well. As for Fusion, I've downloaded a user's guide for the CAM section from Autodesk, but I still can't get it to do what Lars does. I've also tried to download an earlier version, so that I see what he sees, but no luck, yet. Still, perseverance will pay off in the end, I hope.

John

Edited By John Hinkley on 15/04/2021 10:52:23

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

John

Very good guides on How To Use Fusion 360 at this link:

**LINK**

Emgee

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Emgee,

Just had a quick look at that link and it certainly appears to be what I'm after. I'll give it closer inspection later when the soaps are on the tv.

John

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

@not don it yet

> Have you enquired to that company?
Yes, but no reply yet.

Re Sherline – yes I have been seriously considering buying a Sherline as a manual machine, which everyone say are extremely well made. However it's quite expensive. It works out at nearly GBP 1500 for a starter kit, including the pulley wheels that will let you run at 10,000rpm…. plus it doesn't have a quill to allow you to drill easily. The CNC version will be more expensive. Plus it doesn't come with any enclosure…

So I was thinking about some sort of "gantry" type design (i.e. = "router"??) where the cutter moves rather than the part moving, yes? [I am a newbie, remember!]

[QUESTION: Is that the difference between a "Router" and a "Milling Machine"?]

[QUESTION: Is cutting stainless steel about as difficult as cutting mild steel?]

[QUESTION: Why do all the dedicated/gantry-style/router CNC machines seem to have VERY much faster spindle speeds compared to manual milling machines?
e.g. Nomad 3: 9,000 – 24,000 RPM vs. Sherline 5400: 70-2,800rpm ]

MY BACKGROUND
I am working full-time, developing a novel office product in the stationery/paper-handling sector based around an invention. I know a little about CAD but almost nothing about milling / CNC / CAM. I am based in UK.

SOFTWARE
About 3 years ago I tried various CAD software including Sketchup, various Autodesk offerings including Fusion 360, but immediately hated them all with a passion. Eventually I found OnShape which I thought wonderful! (i.e. Solid Modelling and Parametric, with a nice simple UI. However they "switched gears" on me quickly insanely expensive for anyone wanting to keep their own IP.

I have a Entrepreneurial Licence version of SolidWorks, it was free for 1 year but is about to expire. It seems to be Industry Standard, but I don't much like Solidworks. Horribly cluttered UI creates a steel learning curve. And I won't be able to afford the full fees.

What do you recommend for CAD/CAM software?

OnShape seem to cost $1,500 per year which seems pretty bonkers and they do no breaks for startups. Worse the Professional version of OnShape is $2,100 PER YEAR.
Personally I deeply-deeply hate the whole "rental"/licensing model for software. My problem is that as an entrepreneur I am needing to dip into a wide spectrum of applications and I don't want to find that it will cost me $2100 each year just to edit my on work once each year!

* Shapeoko 4 CNC Router
It looks extremely flimsy. It seems to run back & forwards on plastic wheels! I'm thinking "No way can that cut steel!"

* Nomad 3 $2800/ GBP 1700 [but would be a big stretch for my budget!]
Yes, it looks much more robust. [ASIDE: Gads I do SO hate those shiny youngsters with huge egos, flashing their biceps – "only in America"!]

J

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A lot will depend on what "steel" you are wanting to cut. A low carbon "mild steel" will be easier to cut than say 303 Stainless but High carbon tool steels may not.

The router/spindle based machines tend to be best suited to small cutters and these need the higher speeds. Also as they may not be so robustly built as a mill or Vertical Machining Centre the have to take smaller cuts which if running at lower speeds would mean a very long machining time.

Fusion is free had very capable but you may not like the cloud base though file scan be stored on your own machine if you want.

Alibre Workshop (what John Mentions) has their entry Atom CAD and Meshcam as basic CAM, about £500 one off or you have the option to pay for maintenance and get updates.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

Have a look at FreeCAD as well whilst you are deciding.

it has most of the features you need and isn’t beholden to having a network connection unlike Fusion.

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You can do most things in Fusion offline provided you connect once every couple of weeks by running in "offline mode"

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

H John,

It would be interesting to have a review of the Shapeoko for MEW

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I had a quick play with F360 to see how some of the cutting parameters suggested for the Shapeoko compare to what I tend to use on the KX-3 mill.

Taking an adaptive clearing path I did last week and working as if it were aluminium my machine would have done it in 2mins 1 second as I can't run the tool as fast as it could go meaning feed is limited. The Shapeoko with it's higher spindle speeds and therefore faster feeds all be it with a smaller DOC and stepover did the same job in 2mins and 25seconds so not too bad, that's assuming rapids can be used at full speed.

Now taking the same part as if it were steel which it actually was the high minimum spindle speeds of a router/spindle work against you so a smaller diameter cutter has to be used to keep the surface speed in check which is weaker so smaller cuts are needed. Doing the same cut in steel on my machine came out at 2mins 28seconds but although the Shapeoko can do it the down side is the simulator gives a time of 2hrs 24mins!

So as the makers say they will cut steel and stainless but really only practical for the odd occasion rather than choosing one of these type of machines if you will mostly be cutting ferrous metals.

Edited By JasonB on 16/04/2021 14:03:21

[Richard RoushParticipant @richardroush53361]

I have to admit I didn't think that would be possible!

Nice video

[Author]

Posts