New or old what’s better?

[Con MurphyParticipant @conmurphy51858]

Hi so I’m looking at buying a metal lathe but I have no clue what’s is best to buy I was looking at the cj18a with accessories came up around £750. Largest parts i’m looking to make are steering stems for motorbike fork convertions just wondering if this is a good option or if anyone has any better suggestions? Thanks in advance

[Con MurphyParticipant @conmurphy51858]

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi I would have thought that the spindle bore would have restricted what you are trying to turn if 20mm is big enough to pass parts through the chuck all ok but I would have thought that isn't big enough diameter although you could use a steady and a center to turn a long larger diameter sticking out of the chuck.

David

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I'd go for the biggest/newest you can.

Them stems are going to be easier on bigger lathes

jim

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

There is a Colchester Student on classified page on this site maybe something like that? Get the largest lathe that you can afford that will fit in your workshop.

David

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Plus one for the spindle bore check. I do a lot of motorcycle related work and need the 1 1/2" (38 to 40mm in new money) spindle bore to pass fork stations through. Older Colchester student had a small bore.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I guess the steel the stems are mode from may be a challenge too on a smaller/less rigid lathe?

[Con MurphyParticipant @conmurphy51858]

Thanks for all the replies size isn’t a massive problem for me budget is about ?1000 if this helps at all can go a little more for the right stuff.

From the bit of research I have done I think a big stem would be 35mm o/d maybe 10 inches long also can be made from aluminium and I don’t think they are made from extremely strong steel either if I can find the grade I shall post

[JonParticipant @jon]

To be honest i think you will have to drop very lucky to find anything at all used asian or quality. Then find its 3ph and will need means of powering.
Bargains are still to be had just have to be in the right place.

Minimum size from a sponsor. 35mm bore more than twice your budget plus tooling. Was £1200 some years back and theyre asking more second hand worn out than bought new, beware.
http://www.chesterhobbystore.com/craftsman-lathe-3978-p.asp

Better option a quality used Harrison 11" or 140 with 1 3/8" bore, not the earlier L5's.
Dropped lucky on my M300, sold the Dickson tool post itcame with and worked out at £750, but £2k now to power it as intended.

Anything smaller than above will have smaller chuck fitted most likely 4" that 1" dia bar may not pass through, 8" chuck fine for 1 1/2"+. So smaller chuck will only have depth of jaws to front face to hold the round and need revolving centre. Other problem will have trouble centring to put a centre drill in so can use revolving centre. Doable but will p you off then have to cut off other end held by the jaws and face off.
One or two ok, if doing one a month forget it.

Some fork tubes are in excess of 42mm stretching back 15 years.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Just get a lathe with a decent distance between centres and a decent fixed steady.

Neil

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 25/10/2017 20:58:27:

Just get a lathe with a decent distance between centres and a decent fixed steady.

Neil

^^This. (There's a reason he's the editor!)

My old Drummond has about a 3/8" hole up the spindle so almost all long work is done using a fixed steady. Works just fine. Just takes an extra two minutes to set up the job. I recently machined some hammer marks off one end of my under-restoration Myford ML7 leadscrew by spinningit in the Drummond with fixed steady in place, (and bronze bush over the leadscrew thread where the steady rubbed.)

For motorbike steering head spindles, you probably want to machine them between centres anyway, to ensure concentricity of the bearing seats, so lathe spindle bore size may not be relevant. Or at least machined in one setting with one end held in the chuck and the other end supported by tailstock centre, then parted off at the chuck to finish, so again lathe spindle bore not relevant.

This way, any small lathe will do the job. C4 Seig anyone? Seems to be well recommended for new machines. Used Myford would be right size but buyer beware, it's like buying a 40 year old used car.

 

Edited By Hopper on 26/10/2017 00:06:16

Edited By Hopper on 26/10/2017 00:06:49

Edited By Hopper on 26/10/2017 00:08:02

[Con MurphyParticipant @conmurphy51858]

Thanks again for the replies I would like to buy new as I wouldn’t know what too look out for on an older lathe nor a new one but as it’s new you would expect it to be ok. As stated that bore could be worked around with a fixed steady what would be people’s thoughts on this http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-engineer-series-c8-lathe-101595 I have one of these suppliers close to me which I think is a bonus?

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

I would go for an old V way machine in decent condition instead of new Chinese.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Con Murphy on 26/10/2017 00:58:25:
… I would like to buy new as I wouldn't know what too look out for on an older lathe nor a new one but as it's new you would expect it to be ok.

…

I have one of these suppliers close to me which I think is a bonus?

I agree that the best strategy for a newcomer is to buy new rather than second-hand because doing so de-risks the purchase considerably.

Second-hand is a better option when you have more experience and can spot excessive wear, missing parts, and other expensive to fix issues. That said, buying off a reputable dealer should be a lot safer than buying off ebay. Also, many think that secondhand Myfords are over-priced compared with, say, Boxford, even though the latter is a more solid make. Secondhand is a bit of a minefield, it pays to understand what's available, but lots of people get lucky.

Having a supplier close to you is a bonus. It's very valuable to go and look at a real lathe; even better if you can have a quiet chat about it with a knowledgeable salesman. Axminster do a beginners training course that's been discussed in a recent thread. Got good reviews. (Learning to drive a lathe is a little like learning to drive a car. During early lessons the car has a faulty clutch, defective steering, and keeps stalling. A few lessons later those faults mysteriously disappear and off you go…)

Dave

[lug lordParticipant @luglord]

I had a cj18a and its a great little lathe to learn on but now i sold it and bought a myford super 7 and find you get an interest in the actual lathe itself as well as just using it as a machine to do work on .

I think the old myford lathes are much more robust and solid and once you start using the back gears its amazing the torque you can get at low revs

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I would be very sure about material choice for a steering stem, a failure is likely to be sudden and dramatic, likewise if you are making yokes, they can look very pretty when CNC machined but material choice is critical to avoid premature failure. If the stem is to be welded to the bottom yoke then the weldability of the material should be considered as well as strength and machineability.

Mike

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

I was quite impressed with the Warco GH550 lathe I saw at the Midlands Model Engineering show, came with a good spec, including stand with storage, coolant pump and light, 160 mm dia 3 jaw sc and 4 jaw ind chucks plus faceplate and fixed and travelling steadies, does a good range of imperial and metric threads, good speed range and has a 38mm spindle bore, for not more than the C8 at £2450 delivered.

I was looking as I had a problem on my lathe was was wondering what a new replacement could come out at. Thankfully, as I didn't have a couple of grand spare, my present lathe of whom I am very fond has hopefully been sorted out now so a new one is very much back on the very back back burner now; however, the GH550 would be my choice if a needed a new lathe right now.

Chris

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The Warco BH600 / BH900 and its clones, Chester Craftsman and Engineers ToolRoom BL12/24 all had 5MT mandrels, capable of accepting 38mm. Their, now, Geared Head successors, no doubt will have the same capacity.

For an older used machine, you will still be looking for 5MT mandrel to accept material of the size quoted by the O P.

Howard

[Con MurphyParticipant @conmurphy51858]

All great information again guys looked at a couple of the bits that I want to make today biggest o/d 31mm about 280mm in length. @ChrisH had a look at the warco GH550 it does look like a good set up another addition to the list of options.

As for materials to use have seen recommendations for 4140 or en16 or 6061 aluminium steel anytging really lol

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

31mm won't go through a 3MT mandrel, probably not through a 4MT, (so Myford Super Sigmas would seem to be non starters)

Consequently, for 31mm + workpieces, you are looking at a larger machine.

Invertor VFD drive would be a useful option, a Norton gearbox (machine NOT Motorcycle) and power cross feed would be high on my wish list. Definitely 3 jaw s/c and 4 jaw independant chucks, with fixed and travelling steadies as nice to haves.

The come the mag bases and DTIs, if not already available

Howard

[charadamParticipant @charadam]

Shouldn't the original question be:

What's better – an old, serviceable lathe or a newer, serviceable lathe?

After all, age is only a number.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by charadam on 26/10/2017 21:18:38:

Shouldn't the original question be:

What's better – an old, serviceable lathe or a newer, serviceable lathe?

After all, age is only a number.

Or should it be: What's better an old, possibly worn out lathe, or a new, possibly shoddily built lathe?

Not sure what number you would attach to the possibility in each case. Probably more to the former and less to the latter. But now we are talking about the probability of probabilities. Way above my pay grade.

Edited By Hopper on 27/10/2017 08:44:53

[Con MurphyParticipant @conmurphy51858]

Well this is why I came to the people in the know for advice I mean I would rather an old jap bike over the new Chinese stuff.

Much easier to decide when you know what your talking about again why I am here

Edited By Con Murphy on 27/10/2017 15:42:11

[charadamParticipant @charadam]

Gents, the word "serviceable" has significance in my post.

Let's say it means fully working and within manufacturers' tolerances.

Either newer or older machinery can achieve this.

[Stuart RiddellParticipant @stuartriddell45006]

I am still looking myself and when your budget starts at say £750 and we all get talking it doesnt take long for your focus to shift and start looking at lathes over £1500 to £2000. Bang goes the budget but as with all things it appears you do get what you paid for.

If you’re lucky enough to to have an abundance of old lathes in your vicinity and know someone local, which I dont have living in the Scottish Borders, who knows what to look for consider old and with their guidance you should be ok. If you’re lucky enough to live near a retailer like Warco, Chester, Toolco, Axminster and the likes, which I don’t being stuck up here, then I am sure they would be more accommodating and helpful in your quest.

As for me, still hunting, but I have made it my mission to get one sorted before Santa comes

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