New Drummond Project

[Alan Worland 1Participant @alanworland1]

Welcome to my new project!

Collected it all yesterday, a 1928 M Type with the treadle legs and coolant tray, faceplate, 3 jaw chuck 16 change wheels etc

It has been unused for at least 40 years and appears in very good order – the rust visible is quite light.

The plan is to restore it to working order with the 1939 1/3 hp motor that I got with it for my son who longs for a machine of his own – allbeit imperial!

My question is, do folk run these with the flat belt drive (I have belt and flat pullies) or do they get converted for V belt drive?

[Alan Worland 1Participant @alanworland1]

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Hi Alan

Can’t speak for “M” owners but I run my round bed with a flat belt and the original pulleys. I bought the belting by the meter (yard?) through EBay, from a trader in North Wales, Penrhyndeudreath. Very helpful bloke. I also got the joining clip from him – with instructions. OK the clip “ticks” as it goes over the pulleys, but I find that more soothing than irritating. The flat belts also have the advantage that using the clip fastener means that they can be opened at the joint for fitting, whereas a v belt will mean pulling the lathe mandrel to get it on to the pulley.

Keith

[Alan Worland 1Participant @alanworland1]

Thanks Keith, Thanks for the info. I can remember my Grandads round bed ticking as he used it!

I have the original belt, minus clip, which does seem a bit ‘frayed’ What sort of top rpm do you run the spindle at?

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

If you want a flat belt without a joint the best option is to use a ‘Poly Vee’ belt inside out.

 

OK you have to install the belt by taking the spindle out but the life of the belt is likely to be measured in decades so its not something you will be replacing very often.

 

Polyvee belts are vailable in a multitude of widths and lengths and do not stretch, (not likely to wear much either) and run very smoothly at high speeds, although that’s probably not important on a Drummond but they are ideal for a toolpost grinder or high speed drilling machine.

 

With a crowned pulley, flanges to keep the belt in place will not be required.

 

Ian P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Hi Alan

The fastest I’ve run it is about 1000rpm – twice what Drummond Bros designed it for! From what I’ve read, the round bed lay-shaft would be set up for about 250 rpm and then using the standard pulleys you’d get half speed, same speed and twice speed, ie 125, 250 and 500 rpm.

Keith

[adyParticipant @ady]

An amazing machine for its size, you won’t ever regret getting one.

 

The back end looks pretty bare though, have you got any bits and bobs for it?

The bar under the leadscrew is a dog clutch(my one is a single tooth so threading is a doddle), even the 1946 ML7 didn’t have one of them things, I reckon the war office picked them for the war effort(destroyers mainly I believe) because of details like that and made myford their WW2 production base while Drummond focussed on the production of gearmaking machines.

The v-belt pulley versions are easy peasy if you use that linked v-belting, it’s not cheap but it lasts a long time.

 

The other important bit is the backgear, hopefully yours is ok.

The backgear is an essential part of the machine.

 

There’s a yahoo group full of Drummond nutters (drummondlathe) who know the machines backwards, join it and you can download various useful files.

 

These machines are 70+ years old and yet they can still do good work, that’s how good they made them.

I don’t run mine too fast, up to five hundred rpm? probably less.

Their real strength is stiffness and coping with torque, medium to low speeds IMHO.

 

You can see mine in my profile and some knobbly 45mm construction bar it munched through.

 

[adyParticipant @ady]

Did you ever find out where those changewheels were from in your profile?

(I seem to remember you asking)

 

I saw an edgar on fleabay which put me in mind of them.

It can do some pretty fancy stuff with the right attachments, like worms and chuck scrolls.

 

lathes.co.uk

 

They might do for your drummond as well.

[Alan Worland 1Participant @alanworland1]

I like the idea of the poly v! as I have the other half of the flat cone setup this could be the way to go.

Thinking about top speeds my ML7 top speed isn’t very fast – and I rarely use that, so I guess 5/600 should be adequate.

Yes, the back end does look a bit baron! but I believe I have the bits that are missing in the photo. It has got an American 3 jaw chuck of which the jaws appear to be virtually unmmarked but it needs to operated by a female key about 7/16 square!

Also I have noticed that the manufacturers label has not been stamped with the machine number or date of construction? I discovered its date from the serial number.

 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Alan, I have an early Myford version of the “M” type lathe, and that has V pulleys fitted, but I still have my late father’s little RandA lathe, which uses a flat belt. The one thing I’ve found about the flat belt that is an advantage is, that when a jam up occurs, that belt just slips. I use a part of a wide endless belt that I cut for width, that were spares for an old scraped pump that the company I used to work for no longer required, got five belts from one.

 

Regards Nick.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Alan

 

That rings a few bells! My first lathe, many years ago, was an elderly Myford ML4 with many similarities to your Drummond. It too had a flat belt drive and the belt was leather scarfed then sewn together. My first thoughts were to maybe convert to v belt – but I never did. The flat belt worked fine and had the advantage, as has been said, of slipping in the event of a major dig-in. Probably saved a few parting tools that way! I suspect the belt may have been just that – a leather trouser belt. It was about 3/4 inch wide and 1/8 inch thick. the ends were tapered so that the joint would be flat then clamped together and a series of holes drilled (?) in a rectangular pattern through the joint. Waxed string was then sewn through these holes. Pretty simple to do and no need to dismantle the headstock.

Imperial markings? – no problem buy a calculator from your local pound shop and keep it next to the lathe. The ability to make these conversions comfortably and quickly is a useful skill. I found this out the other way around having been used to Imperial at home then thrown into a wholly metric environment later! Many hours of fun to be had with your Drummond – good luck!

 

Regards

 

Norman

Edited By NJH on 26/06/2011 10:03:50

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Alan,

 

When I had a Zyto I used a continuous thin flat belt that came off a scrapped diamond wheel cutter. This was very good, much, much better than the leather belt with clicking joiner the lathe came with. You have to remove the spindle to get it on the pulleys but that was not much of a task – you’ll probably be doing that anyway.  http://www.lathes.co.uk/page4.htmlseem to sell the sort of thing I had.

 

HTH

 

Rod

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 26/06/2011 11:02:51

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 26/06/2011 11:06:03

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

It is possible to obtain heat fusable flat belting which would be ideal for your lathe.Ian S C

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I used to have something similar, many years ago. Used flat leather belting with the joint sewn with copper wire, worked ok, later tried a toothed belt on its back but was too stiff. Big advantage of flat belt is it’s easy to fit a fast and loose pulley system, which is as good as a clutch.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Can I chuck my two pennyworth in here? Back in the 1970s when I was into trials car building and driving, I borrowed a lathe from a friend and it looked a little like the one pictured in this thread, although smaller. It was driven by a washing machine motor via a vee-belt to a lay shaft, thence via a flat belt to the pulleys on the lathe. This belt was a fan belt from a 1934 Austin Seven. It fitted perfectly – and no annoying/soothing tick! There are many of these fine vehicles still motoring around, so I imagine the belts are fairly easily available and it would be relatively simple to determine the dimensions (through the 750 Motor Club). Could be just what you’re looking for?

 

John

[Alan Worland 1Participant @alanworland1]

Thankyou for all your response(s) I get the impression that there are a lot of lathes in use that are driven by flat belts. I must admit my Myford belt is run on the slack side, to help in a jam up situation!

I thought I would start with cleaning and stripping the coolant tray of its chipped paint, but underneath the grey paint is a what looks like black bitumin paint which is a very unsuitable material to put a finish paint onto so I think it will all have to come off – but what a mess! (the legs have a similar material under the grey as well)

Cleaned up the large faceplate, catch plate and all the change wheels – all came up well and virtually unmarked.

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Alan

If originality is important to you I’d be wary of stripping off the black paint unless you’re sure it really is bitumen paint. A lot of Drummonds were finished in a semi matt black finish as new. It might just be the original.

Keith

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