Need to get a Welder!

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There is a bit of info on various types of sticks here

**LINK**

Also a bit of course. Notice how the stick is being moved, One thing I would try with unknown electrodes is reversing the polarity.

There are all sort of catches with electric welding. I'm keen on high striking voltages probably down to using ancient transformer ones that were hard to start due to this. One advantage though is that they weren't far off the correct distance to actually weld. Go much higher and they may well not be.

When I tried out the 3in1 I have bought. I was a touch disappointed with the striking voltage n MMA. On the other hand it's the first time I have used the welder and the sticks on DC. I've had the sticks for years. They were fine on the welder I used to use. – Mmm note I keep them in a warm place. I did get more spatter than I expected. Maybe the current markings on my old welder were higher than they really wear. Maybe the stick was too far off.

I also wasted a tungsten electrode on tig without gas just to make sure sparks came out. It struck very easily. The manual mentions listening for HF discharges on tig. They stop the instant the arc starts. If I remember correctly argon would increase the arcing distance – would it be the right distance for welding?

Another way of starting tig is lift start. Sometimes in MMA welders that don't come with tig but can be used for it. These start the arc when the electrode is lifted by a couple of mm. One I noticed reckons 2 to 4mm. Again it might not be the right height to weld and if the current was too high it might punch a hole through what ever is being welded. That can happen on stick as well unless the weld is started pretty quickly.

In my view it doesn't matter much which type some one starts with. Distance and current come into it.

I had a nose about to see if there is a decent viideo. This one is dated and probably uses a much older clark welder than yours.

If your getting lots of spatter it looks to suggest the right things to me. I'm not sure that hard starting at lower currents applies any more with inverter welders but when welding less energy will go in so things will have to progress more slowly. Sometimes I think in terms of the electrode being in the pool. It probably isn't. When I've had the inner get a lot shorter than the fluxed outer I think it's down to having it too far away usually towards the end of a long weld so the flux isn't melting as well. As I mentioned it usually happens on thin stuff were there can't be much penetration – plating a rusty car floor with 048 etc. Thicker stuff in some respects is a lot easier probably because I could up the current and get a better striking voltage.

John

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[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

For anyone who does want to use stick, never leave your rods anyplace that isnt heated. They absorb water and then are almost impossible to use. Professional welders almost always have them in an oven. If you are having difficulty try warming them to 50 deg c then have another go – you will be amazed at the difference it makes.

[Jonathan PerssonParticipant @jonathanpersson14966]

Mig welders are the easiest welders to use,I wouldn't recommend getting a TIG unless you want to do a welding course to learn how to use it. For your budget you are probably going to get best value if you go for a second-hand inverter welder. I have a Esab origiomag 180. It's been a brilliant welder, it's done four or five hours a week for about ten years without any issues. But it does need to be on a 20amp circuit. I only mentioned that because a good secondhand welder may be better than a junk-brand new welder if you have a limited budget.

MIG welders allow you to do fairly good welds without as much training and practice as TIG or Stick welders

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by Jonathan Persson on 15/01/2017 21:26:57:

MIG welders allow you to do fairly good welds without as much training and practice as TIG or Stick welder

 

But without the required skill and experience, they can produce welds that look nice but have no strength at all due to lousy penetration. This may not be a problem until the day you weld something that you expect to take some load. I speak from bitter experience on this problem.

 

Edited By Mark Rand on 15/01/2017 21:48:12

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Mark Rand on 15/01/2017 21:47:05:

Posted by Jonathan Persson on 15/01/2017 21:26:57:

MIG welders allow you to do fairly good welds without as much training and practice as TIG or Stick welder

But without the required skill and experience, they can produce welds that look nice but have no strength at all due to lousy penetration. This may not be a problem until the day you weld something that you expect to take some load. I speak from bitter experience on this problem.

Edited By Mark Rand on 15/01/2017 21:48:12

That's what I thought about them Mark. Just like the rest they need some skill in current setting and movement speed. I talked to some one who can really use them and pointed this out and he agreed also adding that in some areas that doesn't really matter. I'd just watched some one else cut out a dent and weld in a patch on a van. For that sort of thing it probably doesn't matter that much. With stick on thicker material I think it's easier to tell that there really is penetration. Say 1/8" and up.

A gasless mig might suite the OP though, No need to worry about working outside. I'm not convince he would find it any easier than stick.

John

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[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Nothing improves your welding as much as an auto-darkening helmet

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/01/2017 22:40:49:

Nothing improves your welding as much as an auto-darkening helmet

Neil

I got one Neil. Pure luxury. I did manage with a hand held face mask. You get a nicely sunburned left hand fingers – on the backs anyway.

Bet some one mentions gloves. They probably should.

John

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[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

These look great ! **LINK**    so how comes he doesn't get a wallop ?

Edited By Hacksaw on 15/01/2017 23:36:13

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

But it gives no insight as to penetration, gas flow rate ot material temp – get any of those wrong and your helmet wont compensate

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

Recently bought a small inverter welder, very impressed compared with previous 'old school' stick welder. Easy to strike, good strong arc, and will use any rubbish rods, even fencing wire if absolutely necessary .

Never tried Mig or Tig so unable to compare.

My welding is pretty ordinary by any comparison.but getting better the more i do, the new welder just makes it a little easier.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by fizzy on 15/01/2017 23:41:38:

But it gives no insight as to penetration, gas flow rate ot material temp – get any of those wrong and your helmet wont compensate

Hopefully gives a better view of the mess that's being made.

That video I linked to isn't bad intro even though it's a bit long. I can't use a torch like that man can though. I much prefer welding towards me when I can. I think it's a more natural movement – for me anyway.

Not sure I would always use gaps so perfectly as he has but there are many ways of skinning a cat. In some cases welding on both sides for instance.

TIG for me is mostly about fusing metal without a filler rod. Longer term being able to make small light welds more easily and no chipping.

Trouble is it also came with a cutter. More expense.

John

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[vernon stuttardParticipant @vernonstuttard64763]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/01/2017 22:40:49:

Nothing improves your welding as much as an auto-darkening helmet

Neil

and nothing improves your welding as much as using your "spare " left hand to steady & guide the torch.

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Posted by fizzy on 15/01/2017 21:12:25:

For anyone who does want to use stick, never leave your rods anyplace that isnt heated. They absorb water and then are almost impossible to use. Professional welders almost always have them in an oven. If you are having difficulty try warming them to 50 deg c then have another go – you will be amazed at the difference it makes.

I have found that a little gas blow-torch (such as for soldering pipes) is great. Stick the end of the rod in the flame for 5-10 seconds, then the arc strikes much better. The down side is you have to be aware of one more heat source not to put your hand on.

Regards,

Richard.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Somebody mentioned the sip helmet from toolstation. When I tried mine for sparks I used another that wouldn't fit sensibly. The meteor 2300 from toolstation does have a nice big viewing area at a pretty low cost for that. The shade range and shade settings are inside the helmet. I don't see that as a problem, It also has photocells.

John

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[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

For the original post: get the Clarke you can afford. Get argoshield in a big bottle. Co2 pub gas is a good alternative if you are cheap and lazy, but not as good.

I'd agree about everything said about the benefits of inverters but I think they are slightly outside budget . Lots of people know about clarke and you can get all the spares easily.

You can't learn to do good welds unless you can see.

mig needs to be cleaner than stick, and tig needs to be cleaner still. With bodging things together with stick you just need to knock the rust off. For mig, you need to grind the joints clean – both sides e.g. if you are butt welding car body panels then it will be much easier if you have taken the paint off both sides.

You can't really weld big metal with a small welder without a lot of bother (e.g. pre heat).

The welder is only as good as the power supply. You will probably notice the difference if you run a welder on a long extension.

I have the cheapest stick you can get (added a fan and it is really good) and the smallest Clarke mig for car body panels. I think I can do exactly what OP wanted.

Only use gasless mig wire if you can't use gas… otherwise it is just as messy as stick.

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 16/01/2017 13:37:44

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 16/01/2017 13:39:03

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by vernon stuttard on 16/01/2017 11:39:52:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/01/2017 22:40:49:

Nothing improves your welding as much as an auto-darkening helmet

Neil

and nothing improves your welding as much as using your "spare " left hand to steady & guide the torch.

Agreed, together with working in a comfortable position and getting the weld position more or less flat. Welding patches to the underneath of a campervan was not an easy job. Not pretty but passed the MOT!

Neil

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

A good first project – at the same time as making a welding trolley for your welder – is a gas trolley made from a cheap sack cart. You can pick them up for £20 or less and then shorten it to suit small bottles. My oxy set is on one! My welding trolley has provision for a couple of bottles on the back and also has the plasma cutter underneath along with all my welding consumables etc. Makes life so much easier if it is all on a dolly that you can tow close to the job

Mark

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

I have a clark 150 mig and over the 20 or so years I have had it can find little to complain about. Even the pinch rollers are original but I now run a steel liner,much more reliable.As others suggest,get a bigger bottle unless you like running out of gas mid way through a job.

I also have a stick/tig invertor. Chinese,Giant make. Cheap as chips,circa 200amp and circa £170. For stick welding it gives good,stable results. I have not tried it as a tig but doubt it will be brilliant.

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