ML10 tailstock

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

Hi all, im new here and just picked up my first lathe am ML 10. The lathe has been dry stored in a garage for the last 13 years and is in a bit of a state. Have spent the weekend in the shed stripping and cleaning. my problem is the tailstock Ive stripped it and got tgd quill out but now seems to big to go back in the bore. im putting it back in the way it cane out but it just wont go in.everything is clean and lightly oiled an i missing something here ?

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Never have had a ML10, but insulting you by stating what may be painfully obvious, you do know that there is a key in the Tailstock body to prevent rotation of the barrel?

Recently, working on the Tailstock for a ML2 with a rotating barrel, having removed the Barrel, it would only enter from the back end, with the key removed. Once in situ, the barrel was rotated to bring the Keyway in line with the tapping for the key. This key took the form of a 1/4 BSF grubscrew, with the end filed (insufficiently) to form a key to enter into the key way. Filing and a bit of trial and error found the maximum engagement short of preventing the barrel from entering fully.

H T H

Howard

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Howards reply is the most likely cause. The key has to be twisted in line with the slot in the barrel.

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

hi all thanks for the replys, yes im aware of the key way and key slot, its at the front of the tail stock and the quill comes out and goes back in from the rear of the housing like you describe for the ML2. I think i will freeze the quill and see if that helps.

Edited By Dave Springate on 10/02/2019 21:22:07

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

I can't see freezing the barrel will make the slightest difference. Robert Butler

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

I was thinking if the tail stock housing is warm and the quill is cold it might give me enough room to get it back in.

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

Can't imagine Myford bothering with this during assembly of a new machine where fits would be tighter. Robert Butler

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Dave Springate on 10/02/2019 21:46:42:
I was thinking if the tail stock housing is warm and the quill is cold it might give me enough room to get it back in.

Unlikely, the difference will be tiny. Also, if it did work the quill would jam at normal temperatures, not good.

Something else is wrong, and it's probably simple. Can you post a few photos?

Dave

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

thats a good idea just need to work out how to add a photo first lol, just added two pictures of the quill it looks in good nick no dings or scratches.

Edited By Dave Springate on 11/02/2019 07:21:20

[Alan DonovanParticipant @alandonovan54394]

Hello. If it is not the barrel key, the most likely cause is the barrel clamp. If this is slightly twisted in the tailstock housing it can prevent the barrel passing through the housing.
I suggest you do not install the upper clamp block until you have the barrel installed.
I hope this helps.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Dave Springate on 11/02/2019 07:09:43:

… just added two pictures of the quill it looks in good nick no dings or scratches.

.

I suggest you measure the diameter somewhere near each end, and compare

My hunch is that the taper reducer has been forced-in, and has swelled the quill.

MichaelG.

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

I did wonder if that would be possible. I took the quill to work this morning and have now pushed the adapter out. It was in there very very tight !

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

I sold my Speed 10 3+ years ago, but from what I remember I'd reckon Alan Donovan's reply is nearest. If you got the quill out it's hard to imagine that anything could've been done since with sufficient force to swell the quill and jam it.

I should think if you'd done that you'd know about it!

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

yes going to try what Alan mentions tonight after work.

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

well it’s back in ! removed the small lock down barrel thing and made up a draw bar with a lenth of threaded rod. It went in but was tight. its now back in place and when using it its still quite stiff at the extremes of the travel. It was spotless when I put it together and lightly oiled. I haven’t painted the tailstock body as can’t seem to find the correct paint but I kinda like the “aged” look as long as it’s clean. I’ve also use a 12 bore pull through to make sure the inner taper is spotless too.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Dave Springate on 11/02/2019 19:45:36:

…

I've also use a 12 bore pull through to make sure the inner taper is spotless too.

I'd use a phosphor bronze wire brush too with Young's 303, followed by flanelette patches to clean and a wipe with an oily rag…

Was the taper sleeve stuck by rust, or excessive insertion force?

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

A bit of both really, the quill is definatly fatter at the end than in the middle. which is why I was having trouble gettin it back in.

Edited By Dave Springate on 11/02/2019 22:05:30

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Dave Springate on 11/02/2019 22:04:23:

… the quill is definatly fatter at the end than in the middle

.

Measurements would be interesting, if you have them.

MichaelG.

[Dave SpringateParticipant @davespringate]

I’ve uploaded a couple of photos to the tailstock album showing measurements

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Dave

Those should be of interest to any future visitor, with similar problems.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/02/2019 08:43:04

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Yes, just a tad out of round at the front end, I can't imagine what mistreatment caused that .You will get great service from an ML10, I have had a Speed 10 version of the same machine for more years than I care to remember and it is still going strong. It might be an idea to restore the tailstock barrel to the round state by gently removing the high spot with fine wet and dry paper. If you roll the barrel on a flat plate, surface plate if you have one, or just a glass plate, you can identify the high spot. One thing is certain, you will never be happy with a tight barrel, it will annoy you for ever!

Doug

[Alan DonovanParticipant @alandonovan54394]

Hello again.

Dave, I have reviewed your photos and unfortunately your method of measurement is probably giving you exagerated readings with respect to the measurements taken and the assumed inaccuracies.

Two of the readings (appear) to be taken over the barrel keyway, therefore you will not have measured a 'true' diameter. It will be less than the true diameter as you have lost the 'crest' of the diameter, on one side only, to the keyway (I hope that makes sense). The third reading is taken in a different position which will give a true diameter.

In this case, I would also recommend using a micrometer rather than a digital calliper to measure these diameters as it is easier to get consistent results with a micrometer. You will then have a more accurate assessment of the actual barrel diameters and wear. I am confident it will be much less than the 0.008 inches it currently appears to be – as you say you have a 'tight' barrel.

I am curious to know what the final readings are – should you chose to follow this up.

Best regards Alan.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Rather than any magical swelling of the solid steel quill at each end, your stiffness of motion is more likely to be due to something like burrs along the keyway slot that the guiding key slides in, or burrs or even just sharp edges on the key itself. Possibly burrs on the ends of the quill, especially if a hammer or drift have been applied to get it to move during the removal/replacement process. Also burrs in the inside of the tailstock body where the quill slides should be checked.

Go over the whole lot with a small fine file and remove all burrs and sharp corners and sharp edges then give a thorough cleaning to get rid of filings etc.

Also check the locking blocks for same and make sure they are physically pushed back out of the way and not dragging on the quill when checking for freedom of motion.

You should be able to leave the guiding key, quill locking blocks and handwheel etc off and push the quill in and out of the tailstock body by hand with no resistance. If it doesn't, that indicates some burrs etc on the main diameter that need removing. Otherwise, keep adding one component at a time until binding occurs and that should indicate where the problem lies.

 

Edited By Hopper on 12/02/2019 10:02:31

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Well, on the rear and middle you measured across the keyway, which is going to understate the diameter by a value that's hard to calculate.

Nevertheless, I'd guess from the front end measurement (which avoids the keyway) that, even if the quill fit is defined on a shaft diameter basis, it should be at most 1.000", so someone seems to've inserted that taper sleeve with great force, and probably with something trapped between sleeve and bore. You have to wonder how badly the inner surface of the taper is scored for them to have done that.

Plus what other damage they might've done elsewhere?

It'd be worth checking the quill at rear and centre avoiding the keyway, too.

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