Linked drive belts from RDG

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Looking to change the drive belts on my ML10 and wonder if the link type nbelts advertised from RDG will do the job?

Has anyone used these belts and can comment.

They would save dismantling the headstock.

 

Clive

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

 

Well worth doing, but checkout http://www.lathespares.co.uk. first.

 

 

[MACParticipant @mac53652]

Hi.

 

The “Powertwist” belt looks good and is on my want list (as sold by Chronos – from memory it’s cheaper in their eBay shop than their e-store).

Edited By MAC on 21/07/2011 09:57:41

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

In a word yes’ link belts worked very well on my Super 7for many months until I was raided by the local Goblin from ‘Elfin Safety’. She ruled that that link belts were unsafe as the Super 7 has a ‘lift up belt cover’, so she cut the belt and took it away. She also wanted the machine to be retro fitted with very expensive interlocks on both belt guards and the change gear cover. The hand feed on the lead screw should be removed or covered plus god knows what else.

As I understood the old baggage, link belts are forbidden if they can be accessed without the drive motor is isolated.

The visit did not really surprise me. 2 days before I had had the local chief of the ‘Care in the Community’ mob slowly roasted by the top boss of that mob. Local Authority officers work hand in glove with each other. You scratch one and the rest will get you.

[Ian PorthouseParticipant @ianporthouse21513]

I have installed these belts on my Speed 10 and they work a treat. Easy to adjust if you get the tension wrong.

 

However, they do not slip like a worn original!

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Richard Parsons on 21/07/2011 10:18:17:

In a word yes’ link belts worked very well on my Super 7for many months until I was raided by the local Goblin from ‘Elfin Safety’. She ruled that that link belts were unsafe as the Super 7 has a ‘lift up belt cover’, so she cut the belt and took it away. She also wanted the machine to be retro fitted with very expensive interlocks on both belt guards and the change gear cover. The hand feed on the lead screw should be removed or covered plus god knows what else.

As I understood the old baggage, link belts are forbidden if they can be accessed without the drive motor is isolated.

The visit did not really surprise me. 2 days before I had had the local chief of the ‘Care in the Community’ mob slowly roasted by the top boss of that mob. Local Authority officers work hand in glove with each other. You scratch one and the rest will get you.

When I read your message my jaw dropped in amazement!

 

I presume your lathe is not in a home workshop but in some sort of commercial environment. Damaging your machine by cutting the belt, and then taking the belt away

sounds like vandalism and theft!

 

If the gas board can lock off a non compliant heater for example supply and fit a tamper seal why cannot the HSE do something similar? to prevent use the machine until it complies. On that score I would think that if the belt covers etc were secured with a nut and bolt or whatever then access to the belt would require the use of a ‘tool’ so preventing acidental access. That principle seems to apply with electrical enclosures.

 

Ian P

 

[BaldricParticipant @baldric]

It might be easier to fit a T-Link belt if you can find a supplier of small quantaties, the rivet type links can be awkward, however thaere is probably a cost implication.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

RDG belts are T link type. Just be aware that they seem to stand just a little bit proud of the pulley groove. I put one on my mill but it rattled against the belt guard. Apart from that it worked very well.

 

cheers,

 

Rod

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Richard Parsons on 21/07/2011 10:18:17:

In a word yes’ link belts worked very well on my Super 7for many months until I was raided by the local Goblin from ‘Elfin Safety’. She ruled that that link belts were unsafe as the Super 7 has a ‘lift up belt cover’, so she cut the belt and took it away. She also wanted the machine to be retro fitted with very expensive interlocks on both belt guards and the change gear cover. The hand feed on the lead screw should be removed or covered plus god knows what else.

 

Brilliant.

 

 

These people are more a threat to us that the unions in the 60’s and 70’s and imports from China.

 

First off and I have had some real bust up’s with them and incidentally never lost yet,

they make half these rules up, whilst they appear to have some substance hold firm and get them to show you the relevant passage in the H&S bible.

 

If they don’t have the bible with them, most don’t, ask them to leave and come back later with all the relevant documents.

That usually stops the visits.

 

However if you get someone really determined then fight every thing they say, ask for clarification on every item the pick up and get them to tell you what part of the act it contravenes.

 

They have no right to remove a part from a machine unless that machine has been involved in an accident. If they do remove it you need a receipt. Insist on it.

 

They can force you to lock a dangerous machine off but they can’t do it, neither can they keep the keys.

Usually you can ask for time to make repairs or modifications to machines.

 

Insist before they come on the premises that they have toetectors, hard hat, hi-vis vest, safety glasses and ear defenders and they need to supply all these themselves, no safey gear, no visit.

that’s one rule that is on your side, quote your insurance company “Rules for visitors”

 

You are allowed to make rules up as well, their job to comply or query, if they query pass them on to your insurers. That’s a brick wall for a start.

Never swear or mention Hitler, play them at their own game, it gets to be fun after a while and if you get good at it you can sub contract to other companies of plant safety.

 

John S.

[adyParticipant @ady]

If they don’t have the bible with them, most don’t, ask them to leave and come back later with all the relevant documents.

——————-

 

It’s an approach well worth using with councils.

Many council employees quote text which doesn’t actually exist in the relevant legislation, what gets quoted is their own interpretation of that legislation.

Always insist on the relevant legal passage, NOT an interpretation of that passage, and check on the context of that particular passage within it’s particular subsection of the legislation.

 

They’ve been doing it with the roads and highways laws for decades.

If you see a yellow box which covers both sides of the road, or it’s not on a t-junction for example, then it is invalid.

 

UK law is highly specific and any anomaly is a “legal technicality” which voids its enforceability.

A load of UK sites about council parking fines etc have sprung up in recent years highlighting the liberties councils take where the law is concerned.

[websnailParticipant @websnail]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 21/07/2011 08:06:37:

Looking to change the drive belts on my ML10 and wonder if the link type nbelts advertised from RDG will do the job?

Has anyone used these belts and can comment.

They would save dismantling the headstock.

 

Clive

I’ve just put this belt on my lathe. Two metres left me with approx 150mm over. I don’t know how much you will need though.

First time I’ve ever used this type and it took me a little while to suss it out. I found that a flat screwdriver about 5mm wide helped my old fingers. In the end I did two belts in 45 mins. If it stretches it will be easy to remove a little.

 

Price was good and delivery fast (let down by a lazy postman though but that’s another story).

 

They do sit up on the pulleys more than a Vee belt but my old lathe doesn’t have any guards fitted so no clearance problems.

 

I’m happy with the belts and happy that I didn’t have to disturb the headstock.

 

 

 

Regards

David

[AcrosticusParticipant @acrosticus]

I fitted a Z-section Brammer belt (T-link) to my S7 motor drive and couldn’t believe how much of the belt vibration disappeared when running at high speed! Wonderful!

Following this success I fitted a Fenner Nu-T-Link belt to my Startrite Super Mercury Bench Drill. The T-rivets initially fouled the head casting on the largest pulley so I had to machine a bit of the casting away, but when finished the reduction in vibration was significant.

Subsequently I fitted a Fenner Powertwist belt from Chronos to a slightly smaller bench drill and this again solved a major vibration problem: the standard V-belt slapped against the belt guard at high speed. If my S7 headstock belt wears out again (once in 25 years last time) I will have no hesitation in replacing it with a link belt either T-link or Powerplus.

Yes, I’m a convinced fan of link belts, expensive, but well worth it just to reduce vibration problems, never mind avoiding having to dismantle the headstock.

Regards

Tony

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

That belt sounds very much like the belts that were fitted to my Harrison M250 when it left the factory.

Pete

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

All the reports sound very positive so i think I will replace the the ‘V’ belts I have at the moment with the link type, thank you all for the comments.

 

Clive

[_Paul_Participant @_paul_]

You pay for the convenience though, a headstock drive belt to fit my Boxford lathe is around £5 from the local motor factors as opposed to the £17 a metre I have to pay for the Brammer belts in my Taylor mill.

 

Why is link belting so expensive? it dosent look incredibly special…is it another case of not charging what the goods are worth but what the market will stand.

 

Rip off Britain…..

 

Paul

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Not really if you have the choice to buy or not buy. A simple belt is manufactured by the million compared with link belting which clearly takes a lot more to manufacture. You can’t be advocating it costs the same? You’re also paying for the convenience of not having to disassemble your lathe headstock to fit it which at £20 an hour would cost you a shed load more money negating the cheapness of the plain belt.

Neither can I remember the last time I ‘accidentally’ lifted the belt cover on my Super 7 and ‘accidentally’ put my hands in the belting. The more H+S legislate to protect morons, the world just creates better morons to fill the void.

[_Paul_Participant @_paul_]

Posted by Chris Trice on 22/07/2011 14:23:07:

Not really if you have the choice to buy or not buy. A simple belt is manufactured by the million compared with link belting which clearly takes a lot more to manufacture. You can’t be advocating it costs the same? You’re also paying for the convenience of not having to disassemble your lathe headstock to fit it which at £20 an hour would cost you a shed load more money negating the cheapness of the plain belt.

 

 

My question was why is it so expensive, for what amounts to small pieces of shaped and reinforced plastic.

 

Nothing clear about it taking more to manufacture I can envisage a large press punching links out by the million.

 

And no not the same price preferably much less, surely no one is naive enough to think this stuff isn’t grossly overpriced.

 

As to paying someone else £20 an hour I guess if youre incapable then the Motor factor belt would cost you labour time.

 

Regards

 

Paul

[,Participant @nousername29627]

These belts are designed for use in industry not for model engineers.

A person to dismantle a machine in order replace a drive belt can cost a significant amount of money

The actual downtime of the machine whist this is being carried out may well cost thousands of pounds in lost production.

Hence £60-00 a metre for something that takes minutes to replace represents a huge saving compared to something that costs £5-00 but takes hours.

Model engineers don’t usually cost their time so the choice is simple – is it worth saving a couple of hours but spending the extra money?

Is this belting overpriced? – possibly. but it certainly represents great savings to the people that it was designed for

 

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Another point is that in industry you often have many belts running side by side and a matched set of say 7 or 12 belts is very expensive. With the link belt you can get the belts to match very easily.

 

A felt tip marker across the lot, run up for a minute and see how the felt markers now adds up, Take a link or two out of the trailing belt and try again.

 

John S.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by John Stevenson on 22/07/2011 20:48:55:

 

A felt tip marker across the lot, run up for a minute and see how the felt markers now adds up, Take a link or two out of the trailing belt and try again.

 

John S.

 

I think you would need a lot of different coloured markers!

 

I imagine after the first belt has been shortened even the other belt marks will have all moved out of sync a little, so a new line is drawn, another test run, another belt adjusted in length, and the process repeated until your happy. There will be a lot of marks on the back of the belts.

 

Ian P

 

 

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

I rest my case. Dismantling a Super 7 headstock is a pain in the a**e. I can quite happily do it but I’d rather not particularly if I’ve got it adjusted and tweaked to perfection. I charge £20 an hour so any time I spend dismantling headstocks is costing me £20. I’ll take the slightly more expensive link belt please.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Ian P on 22/07/2011 21:10:11:

Posted by John Stevenson on 22/07/2011 20:48:55:

 

A felt tip marker across the lot, run up for a minute and see how the felt markers now adds up, Take a link or two out of the trailing belt and try again.

 

John S.

 

I think you would need a lot of different coloured markers!

 

I imagine after the first belt has been shortened even the other belt marks will have all moved out of sync a little, so a new line is drawn, another test run, another belt adjusted in length, and the process repeated until your happy. There will be a lot of marks on the back of the belts.

 

Ian P

 

 

 

 

Naw, when you get good you only do it once.

If you are not certain or got L plates on then use chalk <g>

 

John S.

[websnailParticipant @websnail]

Posted by _Paul_ on 22/07/2011 17:42:59:

My question was why is it so expensive, for what amounts to small pieces of shaped and reinforced plastic.

 

Nothing clear about it taking more to manufacture I can envisage a large press punching links out by the million………..

 

My belt from RDG cost £15 metre P&P Free. Not a bad price. It is a thick, multi layer belt (like rubber reinforced canvas) and the pins are large headed, with a washer on the other end.

 

The change to these belts is like the change from standard Vee belt to mulit vee belt in the modern car. Quieter and can transmit more torque.

 

 

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

John Stevenson. Unless you have at least £10,000 to throw away just do as they say. It is cheaper in the long run. Every time you win – you lose – ‘they will find a way to get back at you.

My 8′ X 8′ workshop was in the back of one of my two garages. The Local Authorities knew it was there as they wanted both (privately owned) garages I think for ‘asylum seekers’ cars.

All sorts of folk including Gnomes of Elfin Safety, Min of Agriculture and Public Health inspectors have the right to go where they will. They can all do this without a court order.

The best thing to do is to keep well below their RADAR.

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