Let’s hear it for British manufacturing!

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Parker fountain pens when made at Newhaven. Gorgeous, juicy nibs on interesting pens. Then the quite remarkable Duofold Centennial, a pen both looking back to a great past and taking advantage of the best of modern manufacturing. The Parker 61 in spectacular finishes with the 'Cumulus', 'Stratus' and 'Cirrus' designs.

Cannot forget, either, the amazing 'Onoto' fountain pens made by De La Rue. Even 100 year old pens work beautifully with the minimum of restoration. One even was raised from a ship sunk by a sub in 1916, and worked beautifully after a rubber and cork seal was replaced. This was 2012, with the pen having spent 96 years at the bottom of the English Channel. The gold nibs are a joy to use, making the roughest of paper feel like silk and encouraging wildly expressive florishes in your writing as they flex under the lightest of pressures. Anyone making nibs of that quality these days could sell thousands.

Definitely the best of British manufacturing. I just don't want to think about Platignum or Osmoroid's output in the 1970's.

Regards

Richard.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Dave Martin on 06/08/2018 18:24:37:

Posted by Bill Phinn on 06/08/2018 14:46:33: …..Roger Smith the watchmaker merits a shout-out.

Bill – I'm delighted to see Roger Smith's team mentioned here, but his watches aren't make in Britain, or Great Britain, or in the UK…they are made here in the Isle of Man !

Yes, that's right.

And now I'm going to have to repay your good-humoured pedantry and point out that I used the word "British" throughout my posts, and that the IOM is incontrovertibly part of the British Isles.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 06/08/2018 20:44:00

[Dave MartinParticipant @davemartin29320]

Posted by Bill Phinn on 06/08/2018 20:42:53:

Posted by Dave Martin on 06/08/2018 18:24:37:

Posted by Bill Phinn on 06/08/2018 14:46:33: …..Roger Smith the watchmaker merits a shout-out.

Bill – I'm delighted to see Roger Smith's team mentioned here, but his watches aren't make in Britain, or Great Britain, or in the UK…they are made here in the Isle of Man !

Yes, that's right.

And now I'm going to have to repay your good-humoured pedantry and point out that I used the word "British" throughout my posts, and that the IOM is incontrovertibly part of the British Isles.

Cheers Bill,

Yes, geologically in the 'British Isles' archipelago, but not British. We are, give-or-take a little for scale, as much a part of Britain as Canada or Australia are. We have our own legislature; we have our own currency; we have a Manx passport and we're not entitled to a British one unless one parent/grandparent born in UK. Those from the IOM aren't even entitled to NHS assistance (other than A&E) if they fall ill in the UK.

Because of our situation as you say in the British Isles, we do have a number of convenience treaties with the adjacent islands such as what is now being described as a Customs Union in wider British context, so goods, services and people can pass without hindrance.

Dave, a proud Manxman! (not so much pedantry as pride in my homeland!)

Edited By Dave Martin on 06/08/2018 21:25:30

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Westley Richards gunmakers in Birmingham, excellent products that are exported worldwide. They have a large toolmakers shop next door that i believe do superb work for the MOD and is hush-hush mostly. CCM motorcycles in Bolton, doing really nice big cylinder motorcycles. Triumph motorcycles make their frames in malaysia, and have a plant in India, but i believe they only make small capacity machines for the asian market. So they produce their engines and everything else in Hinkley.

The problem is Manufacturing was left to rot for so long, worse it was actively discouraged, as everyone was going to work in services according to the uk government.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Posted by richardandtracy on 06/08/2018 20:32:35:

Parker fountain pens when made at Newhaven. Gorgeous, juicy nibs on interesting pens. Then the quite remarkable Duofold Centennial, a pen both looking back to a great past and taking advantage of the best of modern manufacturing. The Parker 61 in spectacular finishes with the 'Cumulus', 'Stratus' and 'Cirrus' designs.

Cannot forget, either, the amazing 'Onoto' fountain pens made by De La Rue. Even 100 year old pens work beautifully with the minimum of restoration. One even was raised from a ship sunk by a sub in 1916, and worked beautifully after a rubber and cork seal was replaced. This was 2012, with the pen having spent 96 years at the bottom of the English Channel. The gold nibs are a joy to use, making the roughest of paper feel like silk and encouraging wildly expressive florishes in your writing as they flex under the lightest of pressures. Anyone making nibs of that quality these days could sell thousands.

Definitely the best of British manufacturing. I just don't want to think about Platignum or Osmoroid's output in the 1970's.

Regards

Richard.

Would they be Bock nibs by any chance if so they can be brought still From Beaufort inks

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Derek,

The Beaufort Bock offerings are adequate, but Onoto used to make their own and they were in a totally different league. Bock do supply some of the current good quality manufacturers, like Visconti, Delta and Stipula. Few manufacturers still make their own. Parker do, as do (IIRC) Montblanc and Pelikan. Modern Onoto nibs are, I think, made by JoWo, and every one is smoothed by John Sorowka before being sent out, making them about as good as you can get these days.

I have never been a real fan of Bock nibs, they don't have that little spark for me that the JoWo's have, and they don't seem to polish up so well either. A smooth nib is good, but there is a limit to how far they should be polished. I once over polished a Jinhao nib, and ended up with one that felt like it was always writing on ice, with no feedback at all. It was surprisingly disappointing and I ended up having to roughen it up a bit to make it feel better. Never been able to get to that stage with a Bock Nib.

The Bock titanium flex nibs are an attempt to reproduce the verve of the old gold flex nibs, unfortunately the attempt is not successful and falls woefully short of the old Onoto nibs.

Regards

Richard

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by ronan walsh on 06/08/2018 22:03:23:

…

The problem is Manufacturing was left to rot for so long, worse it was actively discouraged, as everyone was going to work in services according to the uk government.

In another post I pointed out that the £Value of British Manufacturing is actually slightly higher today that it was back in the day. Value, not volume, automation not jobs, high-end rather than semi-skilled.

I'm also uneasy about service based economies, but it is working in terms of wealth. UK Income from services is about 6 times bigger than that of the manufacturing sector. Don't forget many services are sold abroad – it's not just hairdressers! Also, having ignited the industrial revolution, Britain also came up with a working post-industrial economy, warty though it is.

If my pension relied solely on manufacturing, I'd poo myself. On the other hand, I wish people today had access to the range of good jobs manufacturing used to offer. I'd support any realistic plan for achieving something similar, but it can't be done by winding the clock back.

Dave

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by richardandtracy on 06/08/2018 20:32:35:

Parker fountain pens when made at Newhaven. Gorgeous, juicy nibs on interesting pens. Then the quite remarkable Duofold Centennial, a pen both looking back to a great past and taking advantage of the best of modern manufacturing. The Parker 61 in spectacular finishes with the 'Cumulus', 'Stratus' and 'Cirrus' designs…

I still use my father's Parker 61 Classic, although the capillary-filled reservoir make it slightly more difficult to start than a conventional fountain pen if it has been left a while.

Brian

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I see the problem as the demise of the medium quality product.
It used to be that there was little choice and manufactured goods were fairly expensive but solid quality. there were some expensive high quality things for the rich too. Then 'made in Hong Kong' introduced the cheap low quality items that took so much of the market that the medium price and quality producers couldn't continue. So now you just have the cheap crap and the stuff I can't afford. I would like to pay a fair price for a fair quality but it often isn't available, just the plain crap and the hyped up advertised overpriced crap.

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Posted by Brian G on 07/08/2018 12:47:20:

I still use my father's Parker 61 Classic, although the capillary-filled reservoir make it slightly more difficult to start than a conventional fountain pen if it has been left a while.

Brian

My favourite pen is the P61, The P51 was an incredible pen, but the P61 was better still – with one exception, the use of Polystyrene as the body material. I've not come across anything to equal the P61, and had one as my daily use pen for 25 years before it wore out. I used the cartridge version, and must admit I don't like the capillary one I have quite so much for the very reason you mention.

Regards,

Richard.

[Bodger BrianParticipant @bodgerbrian]

Posted by Mick B1 on 06/08/2018 13:45:19:

Posted by Kiwi Bloke 1 on 06/08/2018 12:18:00:

…

Brooks saddles, Morgan motorcars, Cowells machine tools, Purdey guns, Raspberry Pi, most of the Formula 1 motor racing circus and its suppliers …

Let's hear of more, and of firms who provide quality service, before they're forgotten.

 

You're dead right they're a tiny few, and, apart from Raspberry Pi, only available to a tiny – and wealthy – few,

Maybe your definition of wealthy is different to mine but I'm struggling to see how Cowells machine tools can be claimed to be only available to a wealthy minority, given that the current price for a new ME90 lathe is £2700 +VAT & that locomotives & traction engines are featured in the For Sale section here at prices ranging up to £9000. You only need a decent quality lathe & mill (of whatever make) and you won't be far off of that £2700.

As for Brookes saddles, the most expensive saddle that I can find on their website is priced at £320. Expensive? Yes, but it's not a matter of how much money you have but one of deciding how you spend what you have.

Brian

Edited By Bodger Brian on 08/08/2018 13:13:54

Edited By Bodger Brian on 08/08/2018 13:14:09

Edited By Bodger Brian on 08/08/2018 13:17:11

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Posted by Phil Stevenson on 06/08/2018 13:15:59:

Posted by Hopper on 06/08/2018 12:40:54:

Posted by Mick Dobson on 06/08/2018 12:24:17:

Triumph motorcycles from Hinckley.

Made in Thailand these days. But nothing wrong with that, or the resulting quality which is way better than Coventry or Meriden produced in the golden days of yore.

And from what I hear from the few brave enough to own them, the new UK-made Nortons are not the most problem-free of machines.

I'll stick with my American/Chinese-made Harleys.

It's increasingly difficult to say which country any vehicle is "made" in. 100% sourced? Assembled? Designed? Badged? Here's an interesting comment from Triumph **LINK**

Far easier to pick a component and say where it was manufactured. I'm sure the same argument goes for much of the rest of industry. Where are Boeing and Airbus aircraft manufactured? My mate's little engineering company in the West Midlands (you'll never have heard of them) makes some of the bits.

Edited By Phil Stevenson on 06/08/2018 13:27:52

Thanx for the link, interesting reading. Yes, they are doing well out here at the moment, comfortably outselling Ducati & HD, and on a par with BMW. Very very nice showrooms…

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

And my 79 Triumph and 89 Guzzi….

Posted by Mick Dobson on 06/08/2018 12:24:17:

Triumph motorcycles from Hinckley.

Well, at least for the first 10 years or so of production. They seem to have lost some of the individual 'Britishness' now, but still high quality desirable machines.

I have a '93 Trident, but normally ride my '93 Moto Guzzi.

Regards,

Mick

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Let's hear it for BAE.

Finding new ways to kill people everyday.

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Where would we be without a defence industry, would it be best to just get rid of bae and hide?

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Ian Hewson on 08/08/2018 15:34:46:

Where would we be without a defence industry, would it be best to just get rid of bae and hide?

Maybe not in your lifetime, but certainly in your childrens, they will be asked to pay for their healthcare, for their education & for things that we take so much for granted that we just cannot comprehend ever paying for them.

But, I predict, they will never be asked to pay for their defence !

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Not having kids, I and my wife have paid, and are still paying for the needs of ourselves and others at home and around the world, wether or not we want to, I don’t think anything in this word is free, but I do think that it pays to have the best defence you can get.

At 74 I am glad we have and have had world class arms industries to defend me, and the people who are willing to go out and use there products if needed.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Bodger Brian on 08/08/2018 13:12:57:

Maybe your definition of wealthy is different to mine but I'm struggling to see how Cowells machine tools can be claimed to be only available to a wealthy minority, given that the current price for a new ME90 lathe is £2700 +VAT & that locomotives & traction engines are featured in the For Sale section here at prices ranging up to £9000. You only need a decent quality lathe & mill (of whatever make) and you won't be far off of that £2700.

…

Brian

When I needed a miniature lathe I found I could've bought about 7 Sieg C0s for the price of a Cowells, with relatively little functional difference. Of course it's up to individuals how they spend their money, but price has to have a fairly low position in the priority stakes to justify such a purchase IMO.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Kiwi Bloke 1 on 06/08/2018 12:18:00:

Well, I can't fault Neil for closing a thread after mention of the Austin Allegro.

After that, we all need a lift, don't we?

What thread?

I have had quite some Allegros

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The rot set in when some genius thought that more money could be made shuffling bits of paper around, rather than making things. he forgot about the "better mousetrap".

Britain has always been good at innovating, you will need a large sheet of paper on which to write the names of the Brits who started the Industrial Revolution, and made Britain the Workshop of the World.

WE are good at innovating; and then giving away the design, and poor at ensuring that the quality is good.

if we had followed the precepts of an American (deeming) as the Japanese did, we might still have a viable motorcycle car and truck industries (to name but a few).

Sinclair products were good at innovation, but totally useless at maintaining quality.

I am biased, but Perkins Engines are still in the vanguard of technology. In addition to production, they are the only R & D centre other than Peoria, Illinois, for Caterpillar, worldwide.

We are good at inventing I T chips, but they are mass produced abroad!

Push me off the soapbox, please.

Howard

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

What is important is not a few small (or even not so small) excellent manufacturers in the UK but the balance of trade in goods. This is depressing.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263630/trade-balance-of-goods-in-the-united-kingdom/

Russell

[Bodger BrianParticipant @bodgerbrian]

thy Posted by Mick B1 on 08/08/2018 16:49:26:

Posted by Bodger Brian on 08/08/2018 13:12:57:

Maybe your definition of wealthy is different to mine but I'm struggling to see how Cowells machine tools can be claimed to be only available to a wealthy minority, given that the current price for a new ME90 lathe is £2700 +VAT & that locomotives & traction engines are featured in the For Sale section here at prices ranging up to £9000. You only need a decent quality lathe & mill (of whatever make) and you won't be far off of that £2700.

…

Brian

When I needed a miniature lathe I found I could've bought about 7 Sieg C0s for the price of a Cowells, with relatively little functional difference. Of course it's up to individuals how they spend their money, but price has to have a fairly low position in the priority stakes to justify such a purchase IMO.

I agree entirely that it’s up to indivuals how they they spend their money – that was the point that I was attempting to make. What I was questioning was the assertion that Cowells machines are only for a wealthy few. By that standard, given the prices that are asked for completed models, as well as the monetary worth of the contents of the average workshop seen here, model engineers must rank amongst the mega-rich!

Brian

[Roger Williams 2Participant @rogerwilliams2]

Dont forget Rolls Royce jet engines. Newall DRO's still made here too. ( I hope !)

[Sophie HawthorneParticipant @sophiehawthorne11526]

Although we're unlikely to register massively in the economy of this small island my company, Hawthorne & Beauchamp Motorcycles is part of a small but beautifully formed supply chain here in the Midlands of the UK manufacturing and supplying parts to keep mainly vintage and classic Norton motorcycles running and on the road. I can guarantee that all parts are cast, machines and assembled here in the UK. We build such things as Twin Leading Shoe front brake assemblies, replicas of Norton's production racing item as fitted to their Norvil race bikes. We cast, machine and assemble such components as oil pumps, magneto replacement housings as well as repairs and modifications to engines and running gear.

I'm very proud of our, almost, cottage industry which I fell into with my partner who carries out all the welding and fabrication. I indeed fell into the engineering business purely by accident when I finally realised that my history degree wasn't going to pay the bills and put a roof over our head in a country which knows little of it's heritage and cares somewhat less.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Sophie Hawthorne on 08/08/2018 21:00:40:

I'm very proud of our, almost, cottage industry

So you should be. From little acorns great oaks grow.

Russell

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