Introduction

[Lee GoslingParticipant @leegosling63571]

Hello everyone

Glad to join the forum at last,

i have read a few articles as a guest,

But decided to join today as I have just brought myself an import mini lathe,

I don't have any real machining experience (lathe & mill) due to being electrician,

But I used a lathe for a few project when I was an apprentice and i regularly used press presses,hydro press,tapping arms?? And most other mechanical tools,

Since moving to a much smaller company, I don't have access to any machinery,

I wanted to get into metal working, So I have just brought a sieg super C3, tools to scrape the ways and miscilanious fluids and tools,

Hope fully a nice project for the darker winter nights

[Lee GoslingParticipant @leegosling63571]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Good morning, Lee

Welcome aboard !

Sorry I have no "hands on" experience of the imported mini-lathes … but there are plenty on this forum that do.

MichaelG.

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Hi Lee,

Welcome to the madhouse , seriously this is a great forum for model engineers and a lot more besides.

Cheers

Martin

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Hi Lee

Welcome. I joined the forum @ a year ago, and perhaps have a similar background to yourself. I bought a sieg sc4 about a year ago, and have just topped it up with sx2 mill, and am enjoying using both. I would advise you not to worry about asking questions. I've asked loads of things that I've thought I should know or would not get answers to, but always get good advice. My experience is that members are patient,always keen to encourage and I never fail to be astounded at the breadth and depth of knowledge and experience to draw upon.

Merry Christmas.

Bob P

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Lee

Why are you going to scrape the ways?

The Super C3 comes with a ground bed that should be fine as is.

Was there a problem with the C3 or was it fine as purchased?

If there is a problem, was it a new C3 or a second hand one.

If new, where did you buy it?

regards David

 

Edited By David Clark 1 on 22/12/2012 14:34:50

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Hello Lee – I've only been here about 6 weeks and I'm glad I joined. The depth of knowledge here is incredible.

I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to take a scraper to your new lathe. I'm not familiar with the Sieg lathes, but my X2 mill didn't require anything like that. Scraping surfaces so they are both flat and parallel is a skill that'll take you a fair old amount of time to acquire. It's especially tricky on a machine tool because you can't just plonk it on a surface plate

Did you mean frosting rather than scraping ?

[Lee GoslingParticipant @leegosling63571]

I would like to thank you all for such a warm welcome,

The lathe will be with me in the new year, it gives me the Christmas period to sort out a sturdy work bench,

I was planning on measuring the backlash after the assembly rebuild, fit a one shot oiler, then scrape the ways,

i have looked on the net and have seen a lot of references to scraping the ways, but then again this was most likely old threads and china products are getting better all the time ,

I have a few china products at home, so I understand the whole problem with QC and that it is out dated technology, but this does not bother me, because I like to play in the garage, that said with a few modification the china stuff can work quite well,

I am planning to fit the oil system to the lead screw bearing housings and the bed ways, I was thinking of installing it to the spindle bearings at a later date,

An x1 mini mill is on the cards for april, I plan to cnc convert it so I can do some engraving and pcb work,

Once again I want to say thank you to every one,

[Lee GoslingParticipant @leegosling63571]

Sorry Siddley

i missed you question,

I was only planning to give the ways a light scrape (as in only removing a slight amount of material)

only to true the ways better, I was under the impression that the ways are terrible,

i was not planning on frosting as I was not going to completely scrape ways to a true level, I was going to use the "pits" in the ways from the factory finish,

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Lee

I have a Sieg X3 milling machine, I think you will be pleased with the quality of the Sieg manufactured machines.

I have done some nice work on the mill and it has turned out better purchase than I exp[ected for the money and what I had read about the imported machines.

oliver

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Ian,

Welcome – as someone already said, don't be afraid to ask questions, even the most basic are answered honestly with a fair amount of knowledge and experience behind it.

I am puzzled as to why you intend to try to scrape the ways. As David said above the ways on Chinese machines are ground to good standards and scraping will cause inaccuracies if not done properly. As for stripping down, I have had several Chinese machines of different make and all that was needed was to clean off the anti-corrosion waxes with white spirit followed by a wipe down with meths and then lubrication. I check gearboxes etc in case of retained casting sand but have never found any at all not one grain.

As for adjustment, again i have been satisfied with the very good setting of gibs on slideways. With backlash, you will always get an amount on any machine tool which relies on plain screw threads rather than recirculating ball screws. It is a fact of life in manual machining which you have to work around in your normal machining techniques and methods, it is not difficult to overcome the effects with a bit of practice. CNC work is a different matter.

Enjoy learning to use your lathe to it's full extent in making stuff rather than worrying about tuning it unnecessarily.. I doubt that a Sieg C3 would need much work before using it to create some lovely work.

Best regards and seasons greetings,

Terry

[Anonymous]

Hi Lee,

Welcome to the forum. There are no dumb questions, just dumb answers.

I would concur with some previous respondents; get cutting metal as soon as possible. Don't get hung up on 'improvements'. None of my manual machine tools have ball screws or one shot oilers and I haven't found it to be a problem. They've also got lots of backlash, and that's not a problem either. There are two golden rules to machining:

1) Don't buy cheap unbranded cutting tools, however much of a 'bargain' they might appear to be.

2) Know what material you are cutting, who knows what the odd bits out the scrap bin might be.

Seasons Greetings,

Andrew

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Welcome to the forum Lee. Even the old hands on here would think twice before scraping anything let alone a new lathe. Nor is anything more complex than an oil can necessaty on a home machine.

Concentrate on making 'something' not too complex that you will need later. eg a mandrel handle or tailstock die holder.
That will give you a chance to get to know the machine and what if any modifications are most essential.

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Lee, other than cleaning off loads of grease, both my machines worked pretty much straight out of the box. You will probably find the same.

Bob..

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Posted by Bazyle on 22/12/2012 15:43:07:

Concentrate on making 'something' not too complex that you will need later. eg a mandrel handle or tailstock die holder.
That will give you a chance to get to know the machine and what if any modifications are most essential.

That's great advice. No matter what kind of engineering you are planning to do Lee, you can't have enough tooling.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Welcome Lee

I will add my voice – don't fiddle about modifying your machine until you are SHURE that it is the machine that is causing the problem! Start off with a few simple projects and, if you are not getting the results you expect, ask here – there are some very knowledgeable guys " lurking " who will help. To get the most from any machine you need to get to know it – in my experience they all have their " little foibles" – that's part of the fun.

regards

Norman

[Lee GoslingParticipant @leegosling63571]

Thank you for all the replies,

Im glad to hear that they run well after a basic clean up and grease/oil,

I realise I have been taking the wrong approach, im looking at it like when I brought my Chinese motor bike,

I stripped mine, re-greased all the bearings, loctited every bolt, checked/ adjusted aligment of everything I.E wheel spacers for brake alignment, then after about two weeks I stripped the engine to shim the gearbox and clutch bell,

Out the grate the bike would have lasted ten minutes on the English roads, but as she stands she has done me proud for over 18 months.

any way back to the topic

tooling wise I have brought some cheap carbide brazed tools, just as a starter set,a tail stock chuck, dial test indicator and magnetic base/holder, I brought cheap cutting tools as I'm just going to break them,

I plan to change to a Qctp in the future and will buy the best tools I can afford on a monthly basis,

I plan on just buying a few small samples for material, just so I'm 100% sure what I'm machining, most likely some 50-60mm 6061, so I can try multiple exercises from one work piece,

later one when my skills improve I would like to try 304 SS, so I can make a few parts for my dads boat

On a last note cause I'm waffling could someone please guide me to what size dovetail the super C3 uses, so I can order bellows,

Thanks again for all your input, it is very much appreciated

 

Edit: The predictive text on my iPhone is picking random words again

Edited By Lee Gosling on 22/12/2012 18:34:53

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Sounds like you have your head screwed on Lee, I think you'll take to machining like a duck to water.

I'd recommend making your own HSS tools and to fabricate a simple adjustable grinding rest to help you shape them. It's economical, you'll learn a lot about cutting angles and have the ability to make 'specials' exactly right for a particular job.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

As one of the people tutoring me during my Apprenticeship always said "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

Oddly enough I seem to have spent much of the time since completely ignoring that!

 

Edited By V8Eng on 22/12/2012 18:46:11

[Lee GoslingParticipant @leegosling63571]

Cheers Siddley

Being a Gosling, I hope to take to it like a duck to water.

I have watched a few you tube videos about hss tool making, at first with all the angles for reliefs etc, it looks a bit tricky, but I know once I have my formula for the angles and which order to cut them in, I will be laughing,

But I'm saving that for when I have ordered the Qctp, as I think I might try to use the old tool post as part of the tool making jig, so I can cut multiple tools with the same angles,

I have a total newbie question, I have ordered cutting fluid (tap and drill) also water soluble cutting fluid,

The question is can I use the "tap" fluid if I run out of the water soluble stuff for turning, or are they completely differently designed and it's a big No No!

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Hi Lee,

I've had a mini lathe since 1999 and it shouldn't need any scraping! There are plenty of tweaks – not least roller bearing in the headstock – that are worth considering. I ve lost count of what I have done to mine, but I have not been kind to it…

Google mini lathe for much inspiration.

I have never used suds/soluble oil just neat cutting oil either 'neatcut' from Reeves or cutting fluid from Machine Mart. I apply it with a brush rather like 'enery Cooper used to splash Brut all over! It keeps everything else nicely lubricated!

Tool angles aren't as critical as the books say – as long as the angles don't let the tool rub, what matters is a good sharp edge and smooth surfaces.

But you sound eager to experiment, so enjoy!

Neil

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

hi Lee,

HSS tools are relatively easy to grind using a cheap B&Q grinder to begin with. There are only about 4 basic tool shapes plus a parting tool (but that comes later – a bench vice and hacksaw make a good substitute in the earluy sstages),

Best regards

Terry

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Apologies for unintentional duck pun Lee – never again, I promise

Tapping and drilling fluid isn't really what you would want to use for turning – it's too expensive for one thing and doesn't like the heat generated on heavier cuts. Smells awful when it gets hot.

Your water soluble cutting fluid will need a good cleanup routine after use because it tends to stain the lathe bed. I have used three approaches of getting the fluid to the workpiece – applying with a brush, gravity drip feed and a pond pump inside a 5 litre tank. The gravity feed, plan B, was a pain but plans A and C were fine. You do tend to get through a few brushes though – no matter how careful you are they get a 'haircut' from time to time.

Carbide tooling doesn't like interrupted coolant apparently and can crack due to thermal shock. I have only just started using it though, all my experience is with HSS or Stellite.

[Lee GoslingParticipant @leegosling63571]

Don't worry Siddley, it cracked me up typing it,

I'm a bit of a joker even if it's pointed at me, I'm terrible for practical jokes and lightly winding people up at work, the trouble is people don't know if I'm being serious or not,

thanks again for the information,

I completely see what you mean about the cutting fluid smell, I tried to drill a hole with a blunt drill in my early apprentice days

I was thinking of just using a tin can/brush and a spray bottle for the W/S "turning" fluid and the tap/drill fluid out of the bottle, The brush's i was just going to get a cheap bumper pack and super glue the heels,

I already have a bench grinder, so when i order my QCTP i will get a S/C wheel and a large assortment of HSS blanks to play with,

I am wanting to fit bellows ASAP, but i am unsure of the dovetail size, also i would like to fix them to the carriage with small thumb screw nuts and a small slither of aluminium, so i can easily oil the ways while keeping swarf on the ways to a minimum, which is why i was leaning towards the oiler systems, so i could keep the ways covered until the work area was clean again,

On the subject of cleaning, I also have an old smelly henry hover that i got at a carboot sale, that i was planning on sticking under the desk, so when the spindle stops i could quickly clean the area

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Hi Lee,

I got my mini-lathe just less than a year ago and I bought one of the sets of carbide tipped tools like these:

**LINK**

I thought they would get me started as I didn't fancy making my own from HSS blanks (not having used a bench grinder for about thirty years). After making a few parts for my first little engine I was getting a bit disappointed with the poor finish so decided to have a go at grinding a simple knife tool. I though I would be doing well if it performed similarly to the carbide tools but was amazed at the improved finish considering this was my first attempt. So as others have said, have a go at making some tooling yourself. Lawrence Sparey's book "The Amateur's Lathe" which although a bit dated is a great starting point.

Gary

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