HSS hire 500 kg folding engine crane

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Hi,

I need to install my brand new Warco WM290V lathe using a 500 kg folding engine crane, I contacted my local HSS hire but they couldn’t confirm if it would transport in the back of a Mondeo hatchback, has anyone moved one of these engine cranes by car?

Thanks,

Tony

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

I've moved them in a Capri, so it shouldn't be a problem.

But have you considered how you're going to get the crane's legs under the bench or stand that you're putting the lathe on? They're not the most manouverable of things, and will it come with strops to attach to the lathe? Are you experienced enough to rig it yourself?

I know a WM290 is heavier than my WM 250, but two of us lifted that out of my car, carried it across the road, down the cellar steps, worked our way through the obstacle course and put it on the bench.They're not that heavy, especially if you remove the tailstock and carriage. You and your helper will want a beer or two afterwards but that's still cheaper than renting a crane. I owned a folding crane at that point, and using it for any of those stages would have been more work than we would have saved.

[Paul MParticipant @paulm98238]

Tony

I have a 500kg engine hoist which I used to lift a Warco250V lathe. I haven't tried to transport mine but wouldn't try it without help and probably on a trailer given the weight and its structure.

Best thing is to go and have a look.

I purchased mine with the idea of selling it on after fitting my lathe. I have kept it as it will be so useful if I need to shift my machines in the future.

Paul

[WearyParticipant @weary]

I own a larger version 1000kg Folding Engine Crane.

It dismantles and the legs and main part of the 'crane' fold into an 'awkward lump' with a base 700mm x 350mm, and a height of 1500mm. All dimensions approximate – but rounded up. I'm guessing that the 500kg is similar in construction so perhaps the 1000kg version will give you an idea if it will fit or not. The 'detached parts' are individually smaller of course, the largest individual detaching part is the jib.

Regards,

Phil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Bear in mind that an engine crane is an nasty bit of marketing deception. My 2 ton crane only lifts 1 ton at max extension.

A crane is good for getting it out of the car, but Warco deliver and in my experience will run the lathe round to the back of the house on a pallet truck provided of course you have flat level concrete path that is wide enough.
An engine crane is hopeless for transporting as the wheels are small and the footprint wide which makes it tricky inside the shed.

If you can move it to site good quality ladders, mini tower scaffold etc can support a proper hoist (NOT a puller which will lift but are dangerous in descent for which they are not designed)

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Hire shop near me does one that pulls apart and is easy to manage. Legs hitting bench/stand can be an issue but as the lathe is half the crane's capacity you can lift with the arm extended and if one person works the crane while another shoves the machine it should not be a problem, this one also did my WM250

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Thanks for all the replies, plenty of food for thought!!! Its already in the garage so just need to lift it up & onto the stand.

Tony

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Tony,

I was in a similar situation a few years back.

Due to the time scale of moving the lathe etc I would have needed the hoist for over a week.

Solution, I bought a hoist off ebay for £100, kept it a couple of months and sold it on ebay for about £80!

Certainly worth thinking about.

Jim

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

When I bought my folding one ton engine crane from Machine Mart, it just fitted into a Renault 5. (Seats down,crane base into passenger footwell )

Later, it ONLY just fitted into a 2005 model year Toyots Yaris, which, strangely, is a less convenient car for such transports.

So a Mondeo hatchback, being larger, should be an easier proposition.

protect the seats and interior with old blankets!

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 22/06/2019 17:16:00

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

I have lifted heavy items without a hoist by using a pig sty. This is where you lever up one end and put some packing under it, then lever up the other and repeat. The idea is to build up the packing in small stages, ideally with pieces in each direction crossing to make a stable structure. You don't need any fancy equipment other than a prybar and lots of good packing material, such as off cuts of four by two maybe salvaged from a builders skip. The job is always supported, so as long as you make a good job of the pig sty it should be safe. It helps if you have two people, one to lever it up and the other to put in the next piece of packing. Never use bricks for this sort of thing.

John

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 22/06/2019 13:19:07:

You and your helper will want a beer or two afterwards but that's still cheaper than renting a crane.

Hi, that depends, if you stumble and fall you could do a lot of damage to your machine, or worse bust a leg or something and loose wages from being off work.

Manhandling heavy machinery should only be a very last resort and with good assessment and caution.

Regards Nick.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 23/06/2019 06:40:53:

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 22/06/2019 13:19:07:

You and your helper will want a beer or two afterwards but that's still cheaper than renting a crane.

Hi, that depends, if you stumble and fall you could do a lot of damage to your machine, or worse bust a leg or something and loose wages from being off work.

Manhandling heavy machinery should only be a very last resort and with good assessment and caution.

Regards Nick.

Wise words Nick. Better to spend a small amount than have a nasty accident!

Jim

[Ray LyonsParticipant @raylyons29267]

Hi, I bought a 2T folding engine crane many years ago. It breaks down into sections which although heavy in themselves, can easily be transported in a car.

When it came to lifting my Warco BH600, I put some castors under the crate to get it into position for lifting. when I did so it would not swing enough to line up with the fixing holes in the stand so we had to put it down while I bought a large swivel and well greased, made the job very easy.

I did the last bit by myself, gradually lowering and using podger spanners to locate the holes in the stand.

[Martin WhittleParticipant @martinwhittle67411]

Hi

I split the problem somewhat differently, by using an electric hoist to raise the machinery, and temporarily fitting castors to the (wooden) bench.

The hoist is attached to a piece of timber, which is temporarily laid between at least 2 rafters in my garage, which is of a trussed roof construction. If I can manoeuvre around on these light timbers without worry, then I know it will easily take the weight of my ~100kg machines with ease, and should be no problem with at least 200kg.

The castors I use were from Toolstation, 100mm diameter and rated 125kg. Because the stock was limited at the branch when I visited, I got 4 swivelling castors (2 with brakes) for the corners of the bench, and 2 fixed castors for the middle of the front and back. All fixed with short coach screws (hex head).

I get the machine delivered to somewhere in the middle of the garage.

So I could hoist the machinery, position the bench underneath, and then lower and fix the machinery onto the bench. Then wheel the bench into near final position in the workshop attached to the garage, jack the bench up slightly and secure with timber blocks under, remove the castors, then carefully remove blocks and lower the bench.

The benches have a number of patches of heavy duty stair carpet glued under for cushioning; the workshop floor has a laminate surface, so the benches can be pushed into position without difficulty, even with all-up weights around 250kg.

I used this for fitting my WM16 mill and WM250 lathe, The castors are now attached to a small spare ‘bench worktop’, 900 x 600mm laminated from 2 pieces of 19mm ply, for general heavy-duty trolley use, e.g. moving my wood lathe and bandsaw to the ‘wood shed’.

Martin

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

We have a Seeley one at the museum, it folds up easily, but could also be easily dismantled with a couple of adjustable spanners into lots of much more manageable parts, just take some photos first.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I bought one from Machine Mart to lift my WM250V-F & WM16 on to their respective stands with the help of SWMBO. I still have it folded away in a corner for future use, I loaded mine into the back of 3 door Mitsubishi, with the rear seats folded down so you shouldn't have any great problems with your Mondeo. Usual disclaimer applies.

Installing mill onto stand…

George.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

I got one similar to the one in the Georges picture from Machine Mart more years ago that I care to admit. Collected in either a Capri Mk 2 or Lancia HPE.

Good value and effective but, in hindsight, I should have paid bit more and go the version with parallel rather than splayed legs. Especially as mine is the earlier type with straight legs folding very close to the upright and much less space, perhaps 12" – 15" or so, between the rear castors. Not as stable as the wider legged versions and front legs really aren't far enough apart to get properly around most things so you end up working with the jib well extended most of the time. Which doesn't help stability.

Essentially same thing was sold under many brand names. Don't think that any of this older type are still on the market but something to bear in mind if looking at a used one. Although mine does a decent job of lifting I'd not advise getting one just like it. However good the bargain. The style George has is significant improvement.

Clive

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I used a friends engine crane (he helped) to lift my Victoria HO Mill on and off the trailer I hired for the job but the actual shifting was done on three steel rollers – 3ft lengths of mild steel about 2" diameter. I'm pretty sure that we couldn't have moved the mill suspended from the crane. This method is only suitable where you have a machine with a suitable base plate of course and when shifting over a hard surface.

All my other, smaller machines were/are moved by lifting them onto a dolly made for the purpose, from some heavy 2×4 timber sections with boarding on top. To lift them I normally use an A-frame made from doubled-up Dexion section and a simple winch. I made some supports that slide underneath as I lift the machine – so a variation on the "pig-sty" method mentioned and if anything moves whilst winching, its simple to ease off onto the supports. If possible, once lifted, the bench/table is placed under the machine instead of the supports – otherwise the machine has to be slid off the supports. The A-frame can be assembled straddling a bench and then disassembled afterwards though. I can do this work single handed, just need to work carefully and take it steady. The two A-frame sections unbolt from the top (cross) section and are normally just propped against a wall – they don't take up much space and cost me nothing.

Regards,

IanT

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I guess I've mentioned this set-up before as I already had a photo in my 'album' of my 12-speed drill being lifted off the dolly (to eventually enable it to be placed onto its cabinet). Each leg of the A-frame is actually made of two pieces of Dexion bolted together. I've no idea of what load this set-up is capable of but it has lifted an Atlas MF mill without any apparent problems and as mentioned, I generally do it in small stages with a support placed underneath. So whilst not suitable for very heavy loads (like the Victoria) an A-frame is quite a stable setup and much better/safer than just trying to physically lift things I'm sure.

Edited By IanT on 23/06/2019 16:32:47

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Latest update is that the lathe is in front of the stand, I moved it there by pallet truck which my next door neighbour happened to have.

On searching Ebay I came across a guy less than a mile away from me who is hiring a 2 ton crane for £10, I couldn't believe my luck

Thanks to all!!

Tony

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