Help choosing a Chinese lathe please

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

S.O.D;

I think you summed it all quite succinctly in your last sentence.

ATB,

Daniel

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

If you expect to do milling in the lathe, I've found a vertical slide to be effective, and think it unlikely any of the bolt-on column milling heads offer sufficient rigidity.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Neil

The machine mart lathe looks expensive in comparison to other brands.

I bought a mini lathe about 18 months ago and spent a long time comparing specs etc.

In the end I bought a CJ18a lathe from Amadeal. It doesn't have the brushless motor of some of the Chester or Warco ones but has a 100mm chuck as standard. It was delivered very quickly. May be worth considering.

Stuart

[Neil Mccarthy 1Participant @neilmccarthy1]

Thank you Stuart I will take a look at that one as well

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

My Mini Lathe is a CL300M.

In all honesty they have hardly changed in 20 years while the 'new generation' with brushless motors are more reliable and have other improvements, like lever locking tailstocks.

Personally I wouldn't buy a brushed motor version now the brushless ones have been proven to be more reliable.

I should have posted a link before to my article CHOOSING A MINI LATHE

"On this forum, we get an awful lot of beginners asking for advice on buying a Mini Lathe. This is because they offer one of the most inexpensive routes into hobby engineering, having a good capacity and capabilities in a smaller 'benchtop' machine.

"The bewildering choice of machines makes it hard for a beginner, with no previous experience, to choose a suitable machine. The following is an extract from my book Mini Lathes that tries to offer some advice on what to look for when choosing one of these machines."

 

 

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 03/09/2019 10:29:27

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 02/09/2019 21:03:35:

If it goes wrong, ArcEuro probably have the best reputation for service, and I've had good service from Warco.

I would second that. Choosing a supplier known for good after sales service is probably the most important choice for a beginner to make.

Russell

[Neil Mccarthy 1Participant @neilmccarthy1]

**LINK**

I have been looking at this one but they do a basic package

**LINK**

what would you advise and has anyone bought from these they seem to look good for parts as well

thank you

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

A bit late joining this thread but there may be something of use on this page from my website – Journeyman's Workshop Start Model Engineering – Lathes

John

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

I sourced my CML from Amadeal and always had good service from Amadeal, ARC and Warco.

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

I think if i was in the market for a mini lathe i would probably buy from ArcEuro as they have a very good reputation on this forum, Ketan from ArcEuro is often on the forum & is very helpfull not only to his customers but on other subjects as well. They also appear to nearly always have lathes in stock & hold spare parts in stock + there Sieg lathe uses the desired brushless motor & they come with up to 400mm between centres.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Neil Mc,

It all comes down to budget and perceived value for money.

Mechanically, most of the mini-lathe family will be similar, with small differences in assembly QC.

Amadeal have a 100mm flange as standard for lathe chuck, although ARC, and engineers at SIEG do not agree with the idea, based on load over length of headstock casting support, combined with load on electronics. This is a matter of opinion which can and has been debated over time. This is down to customer choice. Wherever 80mm chucks are fitted, 100mm chucks and backplates are available, only because some customers want them, but not something which we recommend.

The cheapest should be brushed motor versions of mini-lathe. At the cheapest level, there will be no overload protection on board. So, probability of the control board/ motor getting damaged increase under an overload situation (similar to C2)… especially for a beginner. The higher level brushed motor versions (C3) will have overload protection on the control board. In all brushed versions, the fai lsafe is normally the high/low plastic gears. Some people prefer to change them to metal gears, increasing the probability of damaging the control board/motor under an overload event.

Then come the brushless motor family which are now a days sold in two ways…:

A.: gear drive – with high low gears and a 'small' brushless motor – similar to the one in your opening link and which is probably the same as the Warco brushless offering… sold as Superior or Super respectively. The power stated is probably/possible 'input power', 'open to question' as the motor appears to be too small in physical size to be output wattage, because if it was output, gears would quickly break!!. These are not made or supplied by SIEG. See following threads for further understanding:

Warco Super mini lathe (probably same as Chesters Superior lathe) See the size of the motor. It seems to look smaller than what a 500W brushless motor of this type should look like. Also read this brushless motor thread.

B: Belt Drive – SIEG models SC2 and SC3. These are 500W output. The physical size of this brushless motor is 130mm (overall length) or 100mm motor length x 80mm x 80mm. See picture here . There is no hi/low gear to break in these models. The torque control comes from programing on the control board, rather than mechanical gear drive. Till date, competitors of SIEG are unable to achive this with their brushless motor/control board setup.

Strictly speaking, based on the above, the SC2 and SC3 should be the most expensive.

Competitor marketing is selective in use of words 'Super'… 'Superior'… other; and in certain ebay cases, the machines are made to 'look bigger'… often plugged by certain members on here, but on close examination, it is just a standard mini-lathe made to look bigger with addition of sheet metal, and looking at the electrical content soon proves that one is dealing with a product which could be considered to be even cheaper than a low specked mini-lathe.

Most manufacturers are guilty of failing to specify what they mean by power, be it for input or output. Certain distributors also exaggerate the power stated, but can still justify this as some form of 'input' power'. SIEG always states output power which is lower than input power. However, we know that some companies who buy from SIEG want them to state their own version of the meaning of power, as it is their own company brand interpretation of power.

Unfortunately, presentation of such facts does come across as a 'sour grapes' issue, leaving the potential buyer to make up his or her own decision, which can still prove to be good, bad or ugly.

Having said all of the above, based only on price, the Amadeal second package does appear to be good value for money, for what it is.

Ketan at ARC.

[Neil Mccarthy 1Participant @neilmccarthy1]

Hi Ketan at arc

thank you for your honest post do you think that arc could do a similar offer for me at all please as with your being on the forum I would prefer that I bought from yourselves

thank you

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Neil,

I understand.

The SC2 and SC3 are both belt drive, with brushless motor. They are far more expensive for us to buy than the brushed gear drive being offered by Amadeal.

As a result, the price we state are currently the best we can offer. For SIEG machines, they are probably the cheapest in the world… at present.

If you want, you could consider to buy Starter Set 1 or Starter Set 2, along with the machine, which could save you some money.

Please be aware that prices are subject to change without notice. Currently, with the volatility on foreign exchange, some prices are increasing. At the same time, due to certain competition, prices for some consumables are falling, as suggested in our September Newsletter sent out earlier today to subscribers to our newsletter. However, price reductions is not something we are seeing at present on machines. Please accept our apologies. If the situation changes, one way or the other, this will be reflected on our website.

Ketan at ARC.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

I have the SC3 and also a micro milling machine from ArcEuro.

Had an issue (self inflicted) when setting up the mill. Rang Arc late on a Friday. Sorry you need to speak to ……… Can you ring back at about 9:30 tomorrow? (Saturday) Rang back then ………. answered to phone, told me what to do, did not call me an idiot (although on reflection I had been one)

I know that if I ring back about the mill or the lathe I will get the answer – either there and then or when the right guy is there, rather than someone trying to guess to help me out.

That's worth hundreds to me – and the prices were the best as well!

Thanks Ketan, you might be able to guess who ………. is – but every dealing I have had with Arc Euro has been equally successful for me.

Nick

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

At risk of wading into this and scraping knuckles with the sneering group, i would just point out that the chinese mini-lathe is getting a touch expensive now for what it is. I did use one (conquest) for 10 years but have changed to the WM180 which is a little more expensive but MUCH better designed and comes equipped (unlike mini-lathe) with two good chucks, two steadies and excellent thick face-plate. It is, in short, a vastly better lathe for the same basic spec of 3 1/2 inch x 12 inches between centres, and not much more dosh when you tot up the chucks and steadies, which you will need sooner rather than later.

 

………The WM180 is much better made and when you add the price of the missing chucks to mini-lathe the prices are amazingly close!

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 03/09/2019 18:14:54

[Neil Mccarthy 1Participant @neilmccarthy1]

I was already then for a choice of 2 different ones and then the last post came in so i am after some advice again please, to start with i will be making push safetys for air rifles and will be using about 10mm round brass rods to make these out off which would be the the best one of all of these to start making them i will also be using stainless steel and a few other types of metal to make these safeties. Would it be best to go for the cj18a mini lathe package 2 which costs £699 with all the extras needed for now

Thank you

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 03/09/2019 18:09:25:

At risk of wading into this and scraping knuckles with the sneering group, i would just point out that the chinese mini-lathe is getting a touch expensive now for what it is. I did use one (conquest) for 10 years but have changed to the WM180 which is a little more expensive but MUCH better designed and comes equipped (unlike mini-lathe) with two good chucks, two steadies and excellent thick face-plate. It is, in short, a vastly better lathe for the same basic spec of 3 1/2 inch x 12 inches between centres, and not much more dosh when you tot up the chucks and steadies, which you will need sooner rather than later.

 

………The WM180 is much better made and when you add the price of the missing chucks to mini-lathe the prices are amazingly close!

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 03/09/2019 18:14:54

Bob, just playing devils advocate here but you say the Warco WM180 is a vastly better lathe but compared to what..? the old Conquest or the latest machines. It also sounds as if you dont consider the WM180 a mini lathe but thats what it is isnt it, its the same dimensions and similar spec to a number of machines which fall under the heading "Mini-Lathe". Looking at the pictures it looks pretty much like the other machines and unless I,m missing something I cant see any special features. You say that it is much better made but putting that to one side what does it do that makes it vastly better than the others, I,m genuinely interested to know.

Edited By Ron Laden on 03/09/2019 20:04:17

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

The WM180 is a much heavier lathe than the crop of mini lathes, every thing about the lathe is larger & heavier castings etc with a bed width of 100mm compared with 80mm mini lathe even though the centers etc is no bigger than the mini lathes. The WM180 would fit in between the mini lathe & a WM240 for example.

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

I don't want this to come over as 'knocking' the mini-lathe which I used for 10 years to very good effect. I did not actually buy my mini-lathe myself (the story has been recounted here before) but I do know for a fact that when it was bought in 2007 it was a fiver under £300, which was then as now a fantastic buy. However,, when i needed a faceplate it was £15 and my 4-jaw was a further £60. I grew to like my mini-lathe a lot and really came to enjoy getting good work out of it,…but it was 'quirky' and needed both considerable fettling and a lot of nursing in use. Quite a lot of it's bits and pieces were a touch clunky and it was obviously a cheap lathe made and sold down to a price.

 

the mini-lathe(s) have now got much more expensive with some useful improvements but it's still the same old friend underneath and prices have zoomed upwards. If you can get a good price and are prepared to become an enthusiast then, I would say; go for it! Me personally, i just wanted to move on and make clocks. Since this involved making up a lot of new kit I decided to do this on a much better lathe, and have never looked back!

 

Specifically, the WM180 is nearly twice the weight, has a bed twice the width, has taper bearings already fitted, has excellent tailstock (no spanner needed) which does not flex when using larger drill bits, much beefier slides with smoother action and thicker gibs, much more comfortable handwheels, better auto feed, steel cogs (fwiw), properly machined bed feet with only two fixing bolts (an advantage), properly designed toolpost which does not need alteration (unlike mini-lathe which needs 6mm off the top slide) to get optimum tool height, stable posture at all speeds, well designed safety interlocks (mini-lathe had chuck guard wired around spindle from new!!)……..Then there's the two excellent chucks, steadies, decent tool kit (fwiw) decent paintwork that's easy to wipe clean, numerous plated parts……

 

 

……….Cons; Much heavier which can be a problem when you want to move it as it's just too heavy for me to move on my own but that's not often…still fiddly to remove chucks,…..won't run without headstock cover in place……no saddle slots (like mini-lathe)……………Warco 'swamp green' colour which I'm not thrilled by but, then again, I'm not too bothered.

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 03/09/2019 21:55:21

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 03/09/2019 22:12:51

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bob you need to be very careful when generalising using the term "Mini lathe" as they are not all the same.

Many in this thread have suggested the Sieg SC2, this has a completely different headstock to the generic 7x machines, comes with, lever tailstock, does not have the easily damaged plastic gears, infact no gears in the drive to spindle, Better brushless motor, etc. So quite a different beast from the minilathe, bit like comparing a Myford S7 with a 254.

As for double the bed width, the poster before quotes and Warco's site says the same 25% not 50%?

Even the current 7x mini lathes have addressed some of the issues you raise such as needing a spanner to lock tailstock, metal gears. Even the 180 has seen improvements since it was first available. So Neil do make sure you compare current models not what was available 10+ years ago with what is about now.

Yes I agree that the cost of steadies, chucks etc needs to be taken into account and I have mentioned this several times in the past but you could also be paying for things you don't need, I have not needed my traveling steady in the 10yrs I have had the 280 lathe and never needed one in almost 40yrs of owning a lathe

Edited By JasonB on 04/09/2019 08:47:26

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Neil Mccarthy 1 on 03/09/2019 19:16:27:

I was already then for a choice of 2 different ones and then the last post came in so i am after some advice again please, to start with i will be making push safetys for air rifles and will be using about 10mm round brass rods to make these out off which would be the the best one of all of these to start making them i will also be using stainless steel and a few other types of metal to make these safeties. Would it be best to go for the cj18a mini lathe package 2 which costs £699 with all the extras needed for now

Thank you

Neil, which lathe would be best..? I think you have arrived at the point where you decide on a machine/package that suits your pocket and go for it. I,m sure that the machines you have considered and the ones that have been suggested will all perform well and cope with the parts you mention.

The only thing I would add is that if I was going for a new machine from whats currently available I would go for one with a direct drive brushless motor and my leaning would be towards a Sieg machine.

However at the end of the day the decision is yours so good luck with whichever machine you decide on.

Ron

[Neil Mccarthy 1Participant @neilmccarthy1]

Thank you all I am even more confused now. If you had £700 to spend on a lathe and accessories what would be the best deal to get please. I need something that I can bore and tap as Well and make parts for my rifle that are now obsolete

thank you

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[LainchyParticipant @lainchy]

There are bargains to be had Neil… keep yer eye's peeled I picked up my 2 year old Chester DB7vs (Same as the WM180), with a metal Chester stand and tooling for £650. This was from Gumtree (albeit a 300 mile round trip to fetch it – with a friend)

Take your time as best you can – eBay, Gumtree and facebook for sale groups, ask questions, and don't jump straight at something. Take the usual care with sending funds.

I doubt you'll need to cut left hand threads, but be aware that a few of the mini lathes don't do this without modification.

Good luck

[Author]

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