Electronic ignorance

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Having commissioned a 3d printer my obvious lack of electronic knowledge was a considerable embarrassment. Seems I need an idiots guide to basic electronics. – Is there such a thing?

Could anyone offer constructive advice as to how I might move forward

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

How to

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

You need to get hold of a book called "The Art of Electronics" by Paul Horowitz and Winfield Hill.

If you try hard you might find a free PDF which you can use on your tablet PC, but I would always recommend purchasing an original copy, obviously.

It's an unofficial "standard text" for most EE undergraduate courses.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Rod- I too am trying to learn, despite being quite good about 50 years ago I now know nothing. I've bought books and used the web but not much further on. I think the biggest problem is the language, does not seem to be English, OK until page two and then I'm reaching for a glossary. You will get lots of good advice and I hope you do well, please don't let me discourage you.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Horowitz and Hill is excellent. One of teh few books I have in more than one edition (the other examples are all floras!)

It may be worth settling for the second edition if you are interested in the basics.

Neil

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

"I think the biggest problem is the language, does not seem to be English, OK until page two and then I'm reaching for a glossary."

Gordon, t'was ever thus!

When I did my initial (R.A.F.) electrics/electronics training some 60 years ago, the first lecture started with an explanation(???) of current flow. Says the instructor Sgt Sergeant (yes, really), "there are two sorts of current flow – Positive to Negative and Negative to Positive". So, says I, which is correct? "Both", says he.

The subject has been a source of confusion and torment ever since, made worse by the effect you observed – obfuscation! It really does seem that the majority of people who deal in wiggly amps and associated areas have a language of their own. There are exceptions, notably some of our forum members such as Les Jones 1 (long time, no input?), but once the electronics guys start discussing problems amongst themselves, there is no hope for such as me! I have bought several tomes of Wiggly Amps for Dunderheads etc., and have a couple of electronic experimental 'things' but little joy. Was once foolish enough to attempt putting together a motor speed control from the MTM Workshop Series booklet … switched on, big bang, magic smoke!!!

At 80, I have now decided that enough is enough – great pity.

Ladybird book of sparks and things … anybody??

rgds

Bill

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Rod, I have a spare copy of Horowitz and Hill. I'll think of a price and send you a PM.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Well any kind of useful knowledge has always had the ball and chain of jargon and confusion, sometimes unintended and sometimes deliberated.

I read "success in electronics, Tom duncan" ISBN 9780-719-572-050

I'll kinda summarize here, 

There are questions on each section you can answer, It provides a basic understand of the principles related to electronics, practical applications and real products are picked apart to help you relate to real life scenarios and usage of electronics in action as it were.

Maths requirements are minimal and it's also pretty handy if you're considering taking an educational course on the entry level of electronics. It's been updated here and there to try and keep pace with the rapid developments in digital and fully integrated systems. 

Michael W

 

Edited By Michael Walters on 30/07/2016 11:48:48

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Surely recommending H&H to a rank beginner is like handing somebody the St James Bible as an introduction to religion? There must be simpler, more basic introductory books. I'm not an expert in starter books like this but hopefully somebody will come along who is.

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Muzzer,

I have to agree on your thoughts re the H n H recommendation…….

There are numerous resources on the web that are available to enable someone to learn the basics, and if questions arise, given the level of expertise from those responding to this thread, answers ought to be forthcoming to resolve….

[Dave DanielsParticipant @davedaniels93256]

http://sound.westhost.com/beginners.htm

 

This might help.

 

Sorry about all the edits .

 

Edited By Dave Daniels on 30/07/2016 12:25:24

Edited By Dave Daniels on 30/07/2016 12:29:38

Edited By Dave Daniels on 30/07/2016 12:30:51

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Excellent link, Dave

Rod Elliott is a wizard … It's well worth exploring his site.

MichaelG.

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Thank you for the response gentlemen.

David that link looks excellent. Duncan I would be very pleased to hear from you. Only thing I have to fear now is nodding off with my tea on my lap. Seems to happen when I study these days.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I read some time ago that electricity does not exist. In fact, it is just smoke that passes through all those wires (a bit like steam). When there is a problem, smoke leaks out of the circuits generally stopping the process until the source of the leak can be detected. For Diodes, read clack valves, For transistors/injectors, For capacitors/boilers etc.. Its all quite simple really !! That is why I demonstrated to a young student how to destroy a NE555 timer. Quite simple, ignore simple instructions and get the pin numbers all wrong – and you guessed it – SMOKE.
BobH

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I think a lot depends on what people mean by the term electronics. It's a rather wide field so before suggesting this and that it would be better to have some idea what some one wishes to do with it / what type of circuitry they are interested in.

I would say in respect to 3D printers this sort of site would be a good idea

**LINK**

Some of that such as minimising the logic needed may seem a bit incomprehensible so probably best noted and gone back to later.

Much of what goes in 3D printers though is done with software. It may sound odd but when things are controlled via software some proportion of it will have a strong relationship to digital logic. It just uses instructions instead.

If some one wants to get into simple analogue work such as op amps and comparators there is a need to understand the methods of analysing resistive networks in order to understand what the feed back around these parts cause them to do what they do. There may be some tutorials about that explain this in simple terms but they usually don't. One starting point I can find is the Node Voltage Method on this page

**LINK**

This may help people understand the current flows and directions often shown in tutorials.

I sometimes wonder why some one can't simply say that in the usual op amp amplifying circuit the feed back resistor is simply driven to an output voltage until there is zero volts difference between it's two inputs. In practice this has it's complications but it's enough to make use of them.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 30/07/2016 13:55:23

Edited By Ajohnw on 30/07/2016 13:56:36

Edited By Ajohnw on 30/07/2016 14:05:29

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

I will also go along with Dave and Michael, not over excited about the book. There is a lot of useful information on Rod's place, its worth while printing it out for a good read, several times over letting you digest it. Modern electronics ain't what it you to be. I'm Ok with single discreet devices but not with complicated chips. One of the best way is to start making some thing/gadget useful in the workshop, following a circuit diagram from one of the many magazines, then you will learn the resistor colour code, capacitor values and transistors details. There used to be two good magazine one called Electronics International Today, the other Every day Electronics, you may pick up back copies of those two. John

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

It's a pity R E doesn't go into a little more detail on networks of resistors because it's a pretty fundamental aspect of electronics.

As a for instance on the voltage divider he shows. Another way of looking at it is that the sum of currents where the 2 resistors join has to be zero. It flows into R1 which is regarded as positive and then through R2 which would be regarded as negative. In circuits like this the actual current level is important because it will be connected to something which also takes current and that may upset the division ratio. This connection might provide either a positive or negative current so if there is to be any confidence in what division ratio is actually achieved either the current flow in the divider has to be an awful lot more than the additional current added by the circuit it is connected to or it has to be accounted for.

It's all pretty simple stuff really as outlined here. There may be better and simpler elsewhere on the web.

**LINK**

The problem in that page for some will be oh dear integrals – an integral is just a sum and that's all it means in this case. Matrix manipulation might be mentioned as well but isn't actually needed. Some times simple high school algebra is. Most tutorials on all sorts of things will assume that this area is understood.

Schaums Outline series are good text books if any one feels inclined that way. They include plenty of worked examples and cover all sorts, There is one on Electronic Circuits. Mines years old now and even has a valve circuits in it.

Frederiksen's Intuitive OP Amps is pretty intuitive in places if it can be found but does cover a lot of aspects in some depth.

If some one fancies playing with buckets of transistors this booklet is pretty famous and free.

**LINK**

Really though it all depends on what some one means by brushing up their electronics knowledge. Copying and building other peoples circuits is fine but wont aid understanding what is going on. Some magazines did add a lot of information on that aspect but often it can be rather terse.

I'm tempted to add that I have an oscilloscope for sale in the classified – Oh dear I have.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 30/07/2016 18:11:05

[Dave DanielsParticipant @davedaniels93256]

One book I have Is pretty good for analogue etc. Not as erudite as A of E ( which I also have ) but much more 'holdy-handy'

Gives all the useful info. on op-amps, Schmitt Triggers, comparators etc. etc. but in a more pictorial form than the A of E.

**LINK**

 

That is the edition I have. I think later ones are available.

D.

Edited By Dave Daniels on 30/07/2016 20:29:04

Edited By Dave Daniels on 30/07/2016 20:31:22

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

For someone who just wants to make things with just basic theory the 'Maplin Electronics Handbook' by Michael Tooley is very good, but being 25 years old it is a bit behind the curve for modern power transistors (no logic level MOSFETS or IGBTs) and the digital stuff is soooo last century :0)

But if you want to understand basic use of discrete components, transistors, filters, oscillators, timers, logic, power supplies, op amps, comparators etc. it is very good.

Neil

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Can I recommend backing up a textbook with a circuit simulator. I use Yenka **LINK** It is a simple to use circuit simulator, which allows you to try circuits out whilst only creating virtual smoke – and unlike real circuits, when you get them wrong, clicking on the burnt-out component tells you why it failed. I have managed to forget almost everything I learnt nearly 40 years ago (I tried re-reading Smith and Dorf's "Circuits, Devices and Systems" and just go blank), and have come to rely on this for checking circuits and in particular for stitching together the partial circuits that tend to be shown in text books.

Only hitch is that as it is educational software, with the "Free home licence for other users" you can only use the simulator outside school hours.

Brian

[Grizzly bearParticipant @grizzlybear]

I've found Ian Sinclair good,

**LINK**

Plenty of info on the 'net.

Good luck.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Yes Neil but the basics are still the same what ever devices are used within reason. Some are just simpler to use than others. Once some one has a grip with other discrete devices the answers that are needed are in the data sheets on specific devices. The biggest problem with this area is that it does need some sums to be done. Electronics generally does even for power switching circuits if some one is worried about how hot it might get for instance. Linear use will generally be harder in as much as it usually needs more sums. IC can make that area a lot simpler.

Actually it's a good idea in some ways to go back even further and get to grips with buckets full of transistors in both linear and digital circuitry modes. The biggest problem with that is the number of thick hefty books that are about full of pretty useless ways of handling them. I linked to a light weight thin one that contains no junk. Schaum's isn't too bad and adds to that and there are several other on far more advanced aspects of electronics.

If some one wants to go retro a book called Electronic Designer's Handbook by Hemingway may be about 2nd hand from people like Abbe books. It covers transistor biasing pretty well but could be a bit clearer in places. Lots of "interesting" circuits in it. Hemingway used to be the head of electronics at BAC. It dates back to 1966. It lacks the important aspect to some extent – using transistors effectively means designing the circuits so that the actual parameters of the transistor don't matter too much. The passive elements have to be arranged to do that.

It's also possible to do virtual electronics. My favourite was electronics work bench. It's cute so some electronics people don't like it at all. Circuits are simulated and it's possible to connect virtual oscilloscopes and volt meters etc to it to actually see and measure what's going on.

It looks like there is still a free version about. Installation shown here

**LINK**

And downloaded from here

**LINK**

Might be wise to virus check it. It is an old version though.

John

–

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I looked at the Ferranti document you linked to.

Section 1 dives straight into speed up capacitors for switching transistors – hardly a gentle introduction for beginners…

Neil

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

Electronics is not "obvious" in the way that mechanics are. That makes it harder to learn. You have to be able to do some maths to be able to figure out what it happening. Somehow you have to trust that your understanding, with the maths applied, really is what is happening.

If you get that bit wrong, then you won't figure out why it doesn't work without trial and error, which is going to be slow. Trial and error can sometimes be the answer, but without the maths you don't know how big the error was. The consequence is that you have no idea what to try next.

I've heard it called "stabbing in the dark". It is why electronics is difficult.

Mechanical engineering is not the same. There are things you have to know, but if the widget isn't long enough to reach, then you have to make another which is longer. If it keeps breaking, then it has to be thicker or made of a stronger material.

Mechanics and electronics are different beasts. Mechanics can be the art of making things to someone else's design. Hobby mechanics can simply be development of the skill and knowledge required to make something that looks nice and works well, from raw materials.

Electronics is different. By comparison there isn't much art in making a radio to someone else's design. It is enough for some people, but you can make the radio and it looks terrible, but works just as well as an immaculately constructed one.

The "art of electronics" is understanding and optimising what is happening. If you don't want to understand it, then there isn't much art to it.

I wouldn't recommend reading "The Art" from cover to cover. It's not that sort of book. The whole point of it, is that you get an electronics cookbook. If you want you can buy your own cookbook with circuits that you like, or want to explore. When you have built your circuit and it doesn't work, or you just don't understand why it does work, then "The Art", will explain why.

It probably won't answer your question directly, but if you use your brain, it will help you to realise the answer for yourself.

To those that don't like the book, I suspect it's because you've not tried hard enough.

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

Back again, a book I can recommend is Electronic Devices 4thEd by Thomas L Floyd it's published by prentice Hall and has 960 pages. The comprehensive book take you through basic power supplies to Ic's using test meters and using an oscilloscope, it contains very good coloured illustrations and it shows you typical meter reading or what to expect on the CRO. There are good illustrations of little circuits to make and test, with enough theory for a beginner without being to mathematical on the way. My copy must be 20 years old so you may get a copy via ebay or your local library .Looking in the contents it start with Pn junctions, diodes and their applications ,zenners, transistors, thryristors,triacs,opamps regulators, all very good..John

[Author]

Posts