electric – measuring the kwh for my workshop

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

Not sure why anyone would ever want an old style thermostat. Properly placed, left ot of reach and untouched they can work, but more often than not they are horribile devices that time really should have forgot.

A programmable thermostat that automatically and accurately notches down the temperature at night a degree or two makes a house far more comfortable for sleeping. If you have 24/7 occupancy then slightly lower temperatures throughout the day also become far more tolerable reducing overall heating costs.

No longer will you experience the extremes of a twice daily '1960's' heating timer clunking on at 6am on a cold morning, the house still cold as you get out of bed at 7am for a shower and eat breakfast, with a thermostat that just clicks off as you leave the house at 8am ready to repeat the cycle at 5pm that day and every day. Get a cold night and higher thermal losses and with a programmable stat the heating will come on slightly earlier to ramp the temperature up to ensure say 20 deg C for 7am regardless. A holiday mode that lets you go away for anything from a day to a few weeks and come back to a house warmed up a few hours before you arrive is really useful tool.

Of course some people just like swinging a rotary dial thermostat from 10 deg C to 30 deg C and hearing clicks followed by gugling pipes followed by sweltering temperatures and windows opened a few hours later, followed by more clicking, another layer of clothes donned and more clicking. Then wondering a few weeks later why the fuel bill is huge.

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

I think meaduring kwh in my workshop has been solved ..
As far as the British Gas smart thing us concerned we have not yet found a way of altering it in any way..
I thinnk if a thermostat is set too allow hot water to pass at 25c it generally will..We can understand that..We cannot understand how smart things work,not being too smart ourselves..Those who like to play with gadgets can have them all,please have them all!

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

Martin , "old styled" thermostats can be extremely reliable. In My last house, I moved in to (1980) we inherited a late 60s Honeywell mechanical thermostat. It had two edge readouts, one for the actual temperature the other for the set point. In about 1985, I had to clean the contacts and I installed a snubber to soak up the splash when the pump was switched off. It was still working in 2012 when we moved. It also had a 5 degree dip for overnight temperatures.

No in new house, modern type controller, just inside the door with an integral thermostat. This is so when you open the front door in the winter, the whole central heating comes on. Never mind, after about a year, the boiler stops working at the set times but works on manual (switch on controller). Checked controller, times/temperatures are OK. Changed the controller programmed all 42 different times/temperatures, all now works. A few months ago I changed the battery, now the first "auto" time does not work in auto (does in manual). Another £50 worth of rubbish.

These modern controllers are two wires, so when I had a conservatory put in with under floor heating, I went out to buy another thermostat. The basic B &Q ones were badly made so I went for a slightly better one. This one is for three wires!!!!

So two wire ( plus battery ) controllers and three wire thermoststats, what a load of rubbish. Another point arising the two wire system is so sensitive, that the boiler will fire up is I try to measure the control voltage with one of of my DVMs (but not the other )

Frank

[John FieldingParticipant @johnfielding34086]

Smart meters don't switch things on and off… yet.

Oh, but indeed they do and they have been used in this country (South Africa) for many years!

Many municipalities use a system called "Ripple Relay Meters" which can be controlled by a sub-audible tone on the mains. These are used to switch off geysers (hot water heaters) when the peak demand becomes too high. Also in many of the low cost housing units provided by the government they fit a "Maximum Demand" meter. This switches off the geyser if the electric stove is turned on to keep the max demand below a certain figure. This allows smaller electric conductors to be used to feed the housing units. The latest generation smart meters not only read the meters but also lock out a consumer who is in arrears.

Prepaid meters are also common and popular with the lower income groups and they can buy electricity at the supermarket or corner shop using a card like a credit card, same principle as prepaid cellfones. The card has a chip & pin device which tops up the card. When they get home they insert the card into the meter and it uploads the data into the meter. The meter has an LCD display showing the number of units available. These have been in used for at least twenty years here. Removing the card turns off the meter supply so the supply shuts down. Plugging the card into the sales terminal device shows the amount left on the card, like a fuel gauge, so the retailer can tell the buyer how much is left on the card.

[Grizzly bearParticipant @grizzlybear]

Frank,

A few months ago I changed the battery, now the first "auto" time does not work in auto (does in manual). Another £50 worth of rubbish.​End quote. If your timer operates in a similar fashion to plug-in timers, try switching it from ON to AUTO, rather than switching it from OFF to AUTO. Good luck.

Regards, Bear..

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I was at a meeting earlier this week when they were discussing using electric cars for backup demand. You get home from the commute, you car's residual (say 40%) capacity is used to help prop up the supply, and then recharged with off peak electricity overnight.

Another idea is distributed energy storage where each house with PVs has its own storage battery.

They are looking at building a few demonstration housing estates to see how it all works in practice.

Neil

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

Interesting that Neil
I have a 12 v solar panel on the roof of my boat which powers all I need,mind you satelite televisions can be used but not by me!Also a 1 kw inverter..The farmer who owns the site keeps checking my shoreline meter as I have only used ?7 worth of electricity in 17 months..I ll do the same in our new bungalow when I get time..Multi fuel stove ,back boiler 1 radiator and a 12 v pump to feed it..I expect the gas provider will want to know why we are nt using enough gas..

[Anonymous]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/04/2016 21:14:42:

I was at a meeting earlier this week when they were discussing using electric cars for backup demand. You get home from the commute, you car's residual (say 40%) capacity is used to help prop up the supply, and then recharged with off peak electricity overnight.

The old ones are the best! Something similar was being discussed in California (by PG&E?) way back in the mid 90s when I was involved in designing electric vehicle drive systems. Although I think the emphasis was on power factor correction of the network rather than straight power demand.

Andrew

[HowiParticipant @howi]

I'm confused – watt meter to central heating to smart meter?

A watt meter will tell you the power being consumed per appliance or whole house depending on type and where fitted.

Central heating, if it has not got a thermostat ( mine hasn't as I have thermostatic valves on all radiators) just add one, the boiler circuit diagram will show what type is needed (2 or 3 wire) and where/how to wire).

Smart meters, I have those fitted to both gas and electric, there are not 'smart' because they control anything, but the send meter reading data back to the supplier so normal meter readings are not required. ( actual meter readings can be taken/viewed by pressing 9 on mine).

I can also see actual live usage via computer/iPad etc anytime I want and it can be graphed from daily, weekly, monthly and yearly, with the actual cost of usage from the previous bill.

I am confused because I cannot see any corrolation between them!

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

I cant see any corrolatiom between them either! We cant rely on wofi as its BT .Apparantly their routers are nt very good..They even came once and put 200 feet of tree proof cable up especially for us..It made no difference..gadgets gadgets everywhere but not an on/off switch among them..

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