Drinking and Driving.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

If I was in charge speed limits would not apply to motorbikes and Sunday's would only be for motorbikes, cars would have to stay parked for the day. Free parking spaces for motorcycles would be widely available. Average speed cameras would replace road humps and chicanes and all roads would have smooth surfaces and no potholes.

Mike

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It's clear from the comments here that attitudes to drink driving have changed dramatically in the last several decades. I doubt our parent's generation would have posted as many passionate comments.

Deaths due to drink driving have dropped from 1,640 in 1979 to 240 in 2014, despite a big increase in cars on the road, deaths due to drink driving are less than 15% of what they were.

Slight injuries have only dropped to 30% of what they were, perhaps due to safer car design, or are stricter alcohol level limits picking up more people involved in minor accidents?

This does suggest that social change, greater awareness and better enforcement are having an effect.

Personally though, I'm more worried about this than any other aspect of the legal issues.

Neil

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Neil, it seems that these people have no greater sense of responsibility than the slime they are defending.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

JACK CADE. Be brave, then; for your captain is brave, and vows reformation. There shall be in England seven half-penny loaves sold for a penny: the three-hoop'd pot shall have ten hoops; and I will make it felony to drink small beer: all the realm shall be in common; and in Cheapside shall my palfrey go to grass: and when I am king,- as king I will be,-

ALL. God save your majesty!

JACK CADE. I thank you, good people:- there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.

DICK. The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

It would seem that the most dangerous people on the road now are the ones who haven't been drinking. The sober drivers need to up their game and stop having accidents and killing people.

I have long thought that accident is the wrong word in most incidents, there is usually a reason and it is mostly the person driving the vehicle. For some reason we give very light sentences to drivers who kill and maim on the roads, much of this seems to hinge around being difficult to prove but any "accident" is a big fail and there are not many places to pin the blame.

Mike

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

How about early prison release earned by working on a road/pothole repair gang? Scraper and when caught, serve full time, no early release but still put in a work gang. Maybe ankle chain to prevent repeat AWOL. Why not? it' OK in USA, so why not here? Only certain types of offense; murderers, rapists, arsonists excluded from early release/ road gangs.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

A bit of a study was done here in the 1970s, when I was nursing, and it was thought then, and it's probably similar now that about 50% of road deaths could be put down to suicide. As Mike says there are very few accidents. Structural failure of the vehicle, or the road can be the cause of accident, or sudden ill health of the driver. Weather too can be a cause, I got blown off the road in my little Fiat 500 back in 1966.

As I don't drink, I fail to see why people still drink and drive.

Ian S C

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

This is where dash cams are good

**LINK**

Regards

Lofty

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by FMES on 03/05/2018 12:28:08:

This is where dash cams are good

**LINK**

.

That says it all, Lofty

My opinion [for obvious reasons] remains as previously stated.

MichaelG.

.

As for the conundrum posted yesterday, by Neil:

Sondheim's lyrics for "Gee, Officer Krupke" are worth a look.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/05/2018 10:20:41:

This does suggest that social change, greater awareness and better enforcement are having an effect.

Personally though, I'm more worried about this than any other aspect of the legal issues.

Neil

I agree that even my own Dad would admit to having been behind the wheel after the pub about 40 years ago.(He would never do that now)

I agree it's a different attitude to drinking in general that's brought about the change, also a good awareness of the number of deaths that have been high profile in drink driving.

 

The link boasting about helping people avoiding punishment is possibly bordering on the grey area of legality. It seems incredibly insensitive to the victims of their accused crimes.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 03/05/2018 12:53:05

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Of course there's a couple of groups of drivers who particularly need sorting out:

As the graph shows most fatalities are caused by drivers aged under 30 and by drivers aged over 60. There's also a problem with men generally, as they are about 1.5 times more likely than a woman to have an accident.

No sacred cows : I'm afraid old men shouldn't be driving. Please take any elderly male drivers you might know aside and order them to behave responsibly. If they're reluctant one of DMB's chain gangs might cure their anti-social notions!

[JuddyParticipant @juddy]

Why build cars that can exceed the speed limit, not only exceed the limit but exceed it many times over. The technology is readily available to restrict the car to the speed limit of the road it is in. Enforcement does not work, remove the problem at source.

If you want to go fast and play, just tell it where the race tracks are and remove the limiter for that location. Its not hard just needs the political will.

Drink driving – once possibly a mistake by the driver – dependant on the amount over the limit. Stand up the person that has never made a mistake. How many of you can truly say that they have never had a glass of wine or a pint before driving – in my book even one is drink driving whatever the legal limit is set at.

Caught more than once there must be something else wrong in that persons life and they need help. If there isn't any mitigating problem then they are truly stupid and deserve severe punishment, and have shown they are incapable of learning from their mistakes.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Where on earth did you dig up that graph, Dave ?

Edit: There are many more recent versions available !!

MichaelG.

.

On the subjects of 'older men' and 'speeding' … here's an interesting recent news item: **LINK**

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/23/company-director-used-laser-jammer-could-escape-fines-giving/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/05/2018 13:25:03

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

If old men should not be driving, then give us public transport systems that work, rather than the shambles we have today. OK, I could get a free bus pass, but the damn things never go where I want to go at the times I want to travel. And as for trains, whenever I buy a ticket I feel I feel I have bought a major shareholding in the railway company. So it's no, I don't want to drive at the age of 77, but I have to, and I always strive to drive responsibly.

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Mike Poole on 03/05/2018 11:14:15:

It would seem that the most dangerous people on the road now are the ones who haven't been drinking. The sober drivers need to up their game and stop having accidents and killing people.

I have long thought that accident is the wrong word in most incidents, there is usually a reason and it is mostly the person driving the vehicle. For some reason we give very light sentences to drivers who kill and maim on the roads, much of this seems to hinge around being difficult to prove but any "accident" is a big fail and there are not many places to pin the blame.

Mike

Do you know how the traffic Police spot a driver who might be bordering or just over the limit?

Is it that finely honed, 6th sense that comes from years of Policing?

No. They're the ones driving almost perfectly. Very easy to spot on todays roads.

With regards to calling them "accidents", the Police don't, they are almost always referred to as "incidents" & you will get short shrift if you turn up on a scene in an official capacity & start using the term.

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

There are lies, damn lies & then there are statistics. One of the few times I have ever taken note of 'official statistics' is the fact that most drink drivers are serial offenders. They may never have been caught & they may never be involved in an incident, but those who are prepared to drive whilst under the influence of either alcohol, or increasingly social narcotics, usually do so repeatedly.

[Mike ClarkeParticipant @mikeclarke87958]

Agree completely about increasing issues with driving standards. As for drink driving, that is just beyond disgusting and those guilty should indeed never drive again. My commute is 2 hours per day, so I get to see a few antics. On the motorway it's not speed alone that presents problems, although absolutely illegal and in my mind should be clamped down on, but the ever-increasing selfish and aggressive styles of driving – usually coupled with excess speed of course. The Police didn't really help matters a few years ago by suggesting that 80mph is now tolerated as the norm.

An example would be joining a motorway. The rules are perfectly clear on the subject (some seem to think the highway code is just a collection of casual suggestions), you should adjust to the speed before overtaking – yet every time you get the Audis and Mercs pushing their way down the slip-road, often forming a non-existent second lane of their own) and straight into the third lane of the motorway – many times crossing the solid white line to do so. I actually have no idea how people get away with such routine speeding. Then we have people tail-gating – which I find the most irritating act on the roads. It's not just roads either, our local supermarket car park is like a Grand Prix.

A major road near us has just installed average speed cameras and this has made a huge difference for the better. However, I think the time has come to have speeds and distances from vehicles in front automatically controlled.

It's actually quite sad as I am passionate about cars, but like everything else, it just takes a few to spoil things for everyone else.

Mike

PS: Barely see a motorway police car (yes some are unmarked)…….don't quite see the reasoning behind cutting motorway patrols because if that was my job Lancashire Constabulary would be making a tidy profit out of me.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Long, harsh prison sentences don't work, you used to get hung for stealing a loaf of bread, didn't stop bread getting pinched. You get electrocuted in USA for murder, still has very high murder rate. What works is the certainty of getting caught, only then do the consequences matter. We have changed from considering drunk drivers to be a bit of a laugh to considering them social pariahs, and drunk driving has reduced accordingly. The much derided youth has it sorted, when #2 son goes out with his nates they always have a designated driver, sometimes dad's taxi, but that's what we're there for.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Neil, is the reference to the law firm who defend the drink and drug drivers an indication of how morally corrupt our society has become , the British legal system at one time was the envy of many democracies around the world, now it looks as though it’s going to hell in a handcart along with many of the valued institutions of our country.

Dave W

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

USA does not have many chain gangs, only seen 1 My entire life. It was in the South where things are more old fashioned. A group of Guys were chained together guarder by a Deputy Sheriff on a horse. It was more than 100° out with a cloudless sky in the middle of summer. He had a shotgun and looked like He might barely just crack a smile if He shot someone. My lesson from this, Don't screw up in Georgia.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

One could have hoped that our access to greater global knowledge would have percolated through to the 'Hang'em, Flog'em and Blood Lust ' portion of society but it seems not!

Very simple to stop drink/driving – ban alcohol!! Drinking is, in general, unnecessary and, in a disturbingly large number of people, totally anti-social. Bad driving is much more prevalent amongst the young and inexperienced so they should be required to be accompanied by a driver with at least 20 years of accident free motoring for the first 20 years.

"the British legal system at one time was the envy of many democracies around the world"

When was this??? Certainly not when Mr Dickens was reporting on the ways of the legal world.

There are many varieties of anti-social behaviour and attitudes not just the wazzocks who self-indulge in drinking/driving

rgds

Bill

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by mark costello 1 on 03/05/2018 14:52:41:

USA does not have many chain gangs, only seen 1 My entire life.

Now I'm disappointed. You'll be telling me next you have Gay Republicans and people who drink tea!

Dave

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Cornish Jack on 03/05/2018 15:08:17:

Very simple to stop drink/driving – ban alcohol!! Drinking is, in general, unnecessary and, in a disturbingly large number of people, totally anti-social.

rgds

Bill

Name one instance where prohibition has worked. If you ban alcohol then drink driving is the least of your worries.

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

I was considering Naming and Shaming the guilty may be the way to go, but there would be so many culprits that the effect would be lost in no time at all.

As an added offence, using mobile phones while driving irritates me beyond belief.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Prison population USA 0.7%, UK 0.13%, Holland 0.07%

Murder rate USA 4.9 per 100,000, for UK 1 per 100,000, Holland 0.9 per 100,000

Nuff Said?

all figures from interweb

[Author]

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