Drill Press Options

[John BromleyParticipant @johnbromley78794]

Replacing my cheapo Clarke drill press is way overdue, it's fine for woodworking and making holes over there somewhere.

But anything requiring precision is a bit hit and miss. Especially with small drill sizes or when working on lighter materials that won't tolerate a big punch mark to get going.

I have been looking at the Fobco Star and Elliott Progress Number 1.

I would like to do some light milling would either of these be suitable. I have read on the Lathes web site some of the Fobco models had screw on chucks for this purpose.

I don't know if it makes much difference to my choice, but I have a Boxford CUD lathe.

I would also like recommendations if anybody feels I'm looking in the wrong place.

Budget wise could probably stretch to £300.

Forgot to add must be 240v. 

John

Edited By John Bromley on 21/07/2014 13:43:54

[John BromleyParticipant @johnbromley78794]

Elliott vs Fobco or something completely different?

[NJHParticipant @njh]

John

You will get a pretty good bench drill for £300 – I have one similar to THIS but forget using it for milling and don't even consider holding a milling cutter in a drill chuck !  Conversely drilling in a milling machine is quite OK ( if maybe a bit less convenient than having both machines).

Maybe save your pennies for a bit / wait for birthdays etc. and for about twice your current budget you can get a small mill which will also drill holes (for example THIS ) . I'm not especially pushing the brand – although I have both a drill and mill from them. There are other makes out there.

Regards

Norman

Edited By NJH on 21/07/2014 14:26:15

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

John

I have a Fobco Star and would highly recommend it AS A DRILL! Not at all sure about the use as a mill. It would most certainly need a screw-in chuck (if available). Mine has the 2MT chuck and it works loose very easily. It is a substantial bit of kit and I have to use a little hydraulic car jack to raise the head when needed. Don't know whether it's still the case but F O'Brien were still in business selling spares for the Star a couple of years ago.

Rgds

Bill

[DuncParticipant @dunc]

I have not tried milling on a drill press; however, here are a couple of references. Some sort of x-y table is also needed to provide the milling table equivalent.

In Popular Mechanics back issues see "How to Mill on a Drill Press", January 1969. It includes construction plans for a dual, ball-bearing support for the drill chuck to counteract lateral forces

Go to http://books.google.com/books?id=RdMDAAAAMBAJ and navigate to the required issue.

Popular Science, January 1952 also has the article, Milling in your Drill Press. Go to
http://books.google.com/books?id=iigDAAAAMBAJ&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0_0#all_issues_anchor

and similarly navigate to the issue.

Again, I have not tried this and would not be happy doing it… but, it is possible

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

I have a fobco star and as a pillar drill it is first class. Beware! My bench model does not have a 2 morse taper. It has a jacobs no6 to take a half inch drill chuck. Don't try and mill anything with this and don't ask me how I know (it was a long time ago honest).

Regards.

David

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Fobco did make a version that was suitable for light milling, as shown here. When I was looking around for a new pillar/ bench drill the only ones I could find from the usual importers of Far Eastern machines that gave any specification for run-out were those from Jet. One advantage of a drill over a mill is that, £ for £, you are likely to have more head room for large jobs/long drills.

HTH

Rod

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi John Bromley

Of all the tools in my workshop the drill press is possibly the most used, have a Taiwanese one branded Rexon, It is not that new I bought it well over 20 years ago. It has a round table that can be tilted and rotated, the usual rack and pinion drive to move the table up and down and a 240 v 3/4 HP motor. It has an intermediate pulley and two belts giving a greater range of speeds. About the only change I have made to it is to fit a decent keyless chuck. The chuck makes it so easy to change the drill to a countersink or to another size, I could not do without it.

One thing I do like is the three spoke handle wheel with 12mm steel arms and nice Bakelite ball tipped ends. giving good leverage and at the same time a good feel. I do not like the new pudgy plastic handles being fitted to some new machines. They do not have the right feel for me. particularly with smaller drills. I want to be able to feel the progress of the drill and be able to detect if it is struggling and needs clearing of swarf or needs more cutting fluid.

The quill and the return spring come into play too. The quill must move freely and smoothly up and down without any change in pressure (With a minimum of side play). The tension of the adjustable (It should be) return spring should not be too heavy. I set mine to a fairly light setting.

The table action is also important particularly the rise and fall, When looking at a new one check that for nice smooth action, also the locking levers should lock with about a quarter of a turn from free. If this is not the case there may be excessive clearance in the joints making it necessary to squeeze the castings, not a good fit.

You are going to spend a lot of time using the drill it is worth spending the time finding a nice one.

Regards
John

[Anonymous]

The last time I used my pillar drill was to drill and countersink the rivet holes for the front wheel tyres on my traction engines. I can't remember when that was, but it must be over a year ago. So the pillar drill is my least used machine tool; I estimate 99.9% of the holes I drill are done on the vertical mill. Head room isn't an issue, as I can swivel the head on the mill, or use a right-angle attachment if needed.

Regards,

Andrew

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Drill or mill? It depends on the type of work you do and your workshop setup and budget.

I do have Shizouka VHR-G Vertical / Horizontal mill also a Chinese round column "Mill Drill". However I still prefer the drill press for fine sensitive drilling. Using the power down feed drilling deeper holes on the Shizouka is problematic with small drills, It is not a CNC machine and does not have a pecking cycle to clear the chips, the quill is quite heavy when used manually. The Mill Drill also has a heavy action it is better but not as good as the Drill press.

A fair amount of the work I do is fabrication of mild steel, tube etc. working to centre punched marks.

In the time it takes to set a piece up in the mill, undo the drawbar and change to the correct tool; sods law says is there is always the wrong tool set. The job is done with the Drill press….

I also work with wood and hate wood shavings on the mill and lathe, the drill is easy to clean up.

Regards
John

Edited By John McNamara on 21/07/2014 17:13:55

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The words 'also suitable for light milling' should be treated with caution. very little milling is 'light'.

That said, I saw a big Herbert drill press last weekend that was probably an order of magnitude stiffer than my mill. but it was about eight feet tall.

Neil

[RobCParticipant @robc77385]

I have restored three Fobco drills over the last few years, usually buying them at auction for a low price. I have never sold any on, but my brother's both now have very snazzy looking drills! They are extremely robust and spares are available for most of the major elements; although things like a replacement table can be pricey!

They are fabulous machines and very sturdy. I'm not sure I would try to do any milling with one, but if you can find a model with the MT2 socket, it would hold an interesting variety of things. Personally, I have not seen any of them when looking at the benchtop models. I never had room for a floor standing model, but you may find one of them with it.

The best place to find them is commercial auctions (NOT eBay) as they are generally found in older engineering businesses. They are built to last and can suffer a huge amount of abuse before failing. Swapping out a 3phase motor is also easy, there are suppliers for identical flange mounted single phase motors out there.

[FatgadgiParticipant @fatgadgi]

Hi John – I have used a few Fobcos in my time and I have owned a Progress 3 for many, many years. Both excellent machines and built to last. The Elliot is used as much as any machine and just keeps on going.

But putting aside the difficulty of fine down feed, even light milling is never going to be very satisfactory for you. If you want to do anything other than play, I would not contemplate it.

How do I know ….. yep, I tried very hard to get the Elliot to do the same thing when I was a lot younger and dafter. Among other desperate things I modified the spindle and made a chuck to safely hold the cutters for it. In fact I even ended up making a frame that bolted to the wall in an attempt to stop the vibrations. Perhaps my expectations were too great, but I saved up and bought a cheap mill.

Drill presses are made to be strong in the vertical direction, but they have much less rigidity in the lateral direction, which is where most milling forces are.

Milling in the lathe is a lot, lot better because of the stiffness, which is why vertical slides were very popular back in the days when cheap far eastern machines were unheard of.

Good luck though whichever route you choose – Will

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

 

Don't forget the Meddings progress drills.

Bought a MK 2 from e-bay last year in very good condition apart from a little surface rust, for just over £200.

This one had a MT2.

The Meddings people are also very helpful to deal with.

 

The one below I didn't win sadly.

 

 

Edited By The Merry Miller on 21/07/2014 19:26:13

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I have a Fobco star {bench)and a large Meddings one inch capacity floor mounted drill. The Fobco I have had since 1968 and was purchased as I had started on an Allchin TE,new and expensive at the time, the Meddings I bought s/hand in good condition in 1994. both are very good drills.the Fobco is excellent for drilling small holes,though the bottom speed of 500 rpm can be too high when reaming above 5/16, and I have wished many times for a column that was about two inches longer. The meddings has a 3 MT spindle ,rack feed to table,bottom speed of 100 rpm . top same as Fobco,Now you may need only a small drill at present,but things change and a larger drill can be very useful ,especially if you want say to build a trailer or go into vintage restoration ,The distance between column and spindle should be as big as you can get,there is always a job that hits the column, thats where the turret mill comes in useful. The Meddings progress and the Meddings pacera range were good industrial drills ,I would suggest find one with a a 2 MT spindle and the high low range gearbox plus 4 belt speeds ,the gears in the gearbox are tufnol meshing with steel ,work well and quiet but make sure they have all their teeth,wait until the spindle is stopped before changing gear ,this enhanced speed range allows use of large drills and reamers plus tapping attachments.Good used Fobcos are a bit expensive (similar to the Myford factor) a Meddings is usually cheaper, read up about both makers on the lathes uk website. The Fobco milling spindles are also described on this site, I would advise against milling on any drill, I bought my meddings as I needed to drill larger holes in bigger workpieces and found that drilling with mt drills in my big Elliot millmor was time consuming changing the drills and a pain in the backside. Another drill is the Fobco Seven eight this has a 2mt spindle ,floor mounted ,and a superb drill but unfortuneatly sought after and seriously overpriced.

Avoid foreign drills ,a local farm has one ,floor mounted ,2mt spindle,place block of steel over the central hole in the table and bring the chuck down to it,then pull a bit harder on the lever and the table visibly deflects under a moderate load,though 20 years ago it was a quarter the price of a Meddings and drilled holes in bits of plate and angle suitable for ag work .Though if you are as old as me anything at times can be better than a hand drill

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

I'm surprised no-one has yet mentioned the usual reference source There's some explanation of the "light milling" reference there including several pictures with the drill-press set up to do so.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I belive Meddings made the Pacera range and Elliott the Progress range. There are sometimes adverts mixing the two designations. Startrite is another older make.

For high torque speeds below 300rpm you have to find a back geared one of which there are half as many and so are higher priced but an intermediate pulley technique is also used on some old drills as with modern far eastern versions.

When moving a back geared drill don't forget to drain the oil on an Elliott as it is not well sealed (small allen grub screw near back gear handle I think). The Meddings is better sealed with just a breather in the filler.

Now a question. Does anyone know which back geared drill used a pin in the bull wheel like some lathes and had a pulley cover that moved up and backwards while staying parallel to its closed position? Just that we had one at work and curious as to what it was. My intro to that workshop was using it to trepan 3 in holes for moving coil meters.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by OMG on 21/07/2014 21:43:00:

I'm surprised no-one has yet mentioned the usual reference source There's some explanation of the "light milling" reference there including several pictures with the drill-press set up to do so.

I was embarrassed when I realised I had linked to it in my post after it had already been mentioned in the original question

(It is sometimes difficult to keep track of the various threads in posts)

Cheers,

Rod

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

i have a FOBCO STAR. i had a Clarke pillar drill beforehand and used both for awhile before giving away the Clarke.

ive never used my FOBCO STAR for milling, and in any event have a Dore Westbury mill. i do however use the Fobco star a lot for milling with pin drills, counterbores etc which seems to be a forgotten machining process these days.

if anyone has an easy method of reducing the lowest speed of the Fobco i would be very pleased to here from them – the bottom speed is far too fast for the max capacity of the chuck, plus drills i have with turned down shanks.

cheers,

julian

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If your problem with your existing drill is the slop of the quill there was an article in ME about taking out the slack in the feed rack that also helps with that. Another method would be to leave the quill retracted and make a rising table to lift the work to the drill for small items which is a method used on some commercial machines anyway.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I am a Meddings owner and would recommend their machines. With your budget it will be a used machine, some very good machines turn up on ebay which is where I sourced mine and I am pleased with my purchase.

Mike

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi
Here is my mill drill set up using a back geared Kerry drill

Edited By Nobby on 21/07/2014 23:01:42

[Yngvar FParticipant @yngvarf]

Posted by Bazyle on 21/07/2014 21:51:04:

Now a question. Does anyone know which back geared drill used a pin in the bull wheel like some lathes and had a pulley cover that moved up and backwards while staying parallel to its closed position? Just that we had one at work and curious as to what it was. My intro to that workshop was using it to trepan 3 in holes for moving coil meters.

That could be a Kerry's super 8. One up on Myford.

Yngvar

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Sorry cant delete 2nd one above . I have fitted a system to use milling cutters
Nobby

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Here you go if you want to get your skates on:

http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/110640262/pillar-drill.html

graham.

[Author]

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