Creworks Chinese Mini Lathe – interesting

[Lee CooperParticipant @leecooper46013]

Just posting this for general interest, and interested to hear experiences if anyone else has one.

I’ve not heard of this brand before, but it’s your instantly recognisable Chinese mini lathe but with a few features I’ve not seen before, in particular- longer bed length, more powerful motor, larger through spindle hole.

Reviews on this particular version seem fairly decent but looking at other models which are variations from the same seller it’s the typical lottery and fit-and-finish quality you expect from a cheap Chinese lathe.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BGMXLDZX

Anyway I thought the specs, which are not something I’ve seen before in this segment made it interesting. Half tempted to take a punt at this price, given Amazon’s excellent support in the eventuality a return for refund is required.

Apparently one guy had his open and the headstock has a taper bearing at one end and a standard at the other.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Really stretches the definition of mini-lathe about as far as it can go.

The big bore makes it a seriously interesting concept but much of the engineering looks somewhat incoherent. What appears to be a standard mini lathe topside “built up in the sand” with a thick block underneath to bring it to centre height really doesn’t look rigid enough. Saddle looks way skinny too for a machine of near SouthBend size.

Using simple electronic control to deliver enough speed variation from a motor of only 1,100 W seems to guarantee serious shortage of oomph at lower revs.

Likely to be very frustrating to use in a “boy set to do a mans job” fashion.

Shame really because the concept is really nice. Most likely let down by attempting to reach an unfeasibly low price point.

Were I the designer I’d beef up saddle and topside, extend tailstock travel, add a stepper motor for electronic lead screw and cross feed drive and fit a two speed gearbox along with back gear. Not forgetting a four jaw chuck in the box too.

Then try to sell it for £1,400 or so and be hugely disappointed by how few customers I got!

Clive

[Lee CooperParticipant @leecooper46013]

Thanks Clive.. you’ve made some informed observations there which may just have saved me a disappointing impulse purchase.

As you say, it is a shame. I would jump at your upgraded model @£1400. Are there really that few of us who would buy something like that?

I’ve been looking at lathes for a few months and there seems to be a real gap in the market. I’m not fancying the potential pitfalls that come with second hand for someone of my experience, Sherlines look nice and accurate out of the box but I would prefer something bigger; then you have the mini lathes which seem to become as much a project as a ready-to-go tool.. not what I want. A step up from that it seems to jump to silly money with not much in the middle.

I’ll probably go with a Warco WM240. A bit beefier and the reviews seem decent, plus I get the impression the QC is a bit better despite coming from the same factory as a lot of the other stuff.

Anyway drop me a line when your product’s out. I’ve got 1400 burning a hole.. 🙂

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Lee

At 70 years of age no chance of me ever putting a product out. But if I did it would be a CNC system that works properly, easily and quickly in the modern world. Think 3D printing style, not G-code!

Concerning that lathe I do have some relevant experience of the potential issues involved from that sort of enlargement.

Way back I traded up my second SouthBend 9″ lathe, a model A, for a late SouthBend Heavy 10 toolroom version with big bore spindle and cam lock chuck fittings. For all practical purposes the Heavy 10 simply increased the swing by 1″ with a bigger bore and beefed up headstock but everything else was pretty much the same size as the 9″. Excellent on lighter work but just not strong enough to handle the cuts needed on bigger jobs.

Frustrating.

The lathe you linked to has even more enlargement relative to the basic source design size so the issues will be compounded.

The Heavy 10 got swopped for a Smart & Brown 1024 which is pretty much a cut down bigger lathe retaining the massive saddle, topside et al. Saddle and slides are actually bigger than on my P&W Model B 12″ x 30″ which itself is actually almost 14″ swing and has a well earned reputation for both accuracy and the ability to take heavy cuts.

Having way too much strength in saddle and slides is liberating.

Clive

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

How can that be a mini lathe with those dimensions?

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

It has potential to be good, probably after some fine tuning has been carried out. One drawback with many of these lathes is the way the swing is increased by raising up everything rather than making a stouter lathe. The bed looks hardly heavier cross section than the 7 x 12 that I have. A nice strong bed for a mini lathe, but somewhat flimsy without being scaled up in size.

[Lee CooperParticipant @leecooper46013]

Put me on the waiting list for one of your CNC’s too, Clive.. but I jest. It does sound like a great concept though!

Interesting to hear some insight from you on how you developed your perspective on the inadequacies of the lathe I posted. Quite frankly none of this occurred to me.. you live and learn.

 

[Lee CooperParticipant @leecooper46013]

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I would think that the head bearings would be the best part of the lathe, definitely not plain type.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. As said above the vertical stretch on standard narrow bed is not going to work well.

Have a look at the Sieg SC4 at 1200 Quid from Arc Eurotrade. A much more solid and usable machine with good after sales back up.

Amazon returns policy is not going to cover a machine that works but works poorly due to inherent design weaknesses. Caveat emptor.

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

X1 for the sc4.

Ian

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Also, don’t forget to check the motor OUTPUT.  That 1.1kW very likely refers to power input, so the output may be only half that!  Chinese units are often hyped to appear as high as possibly possible and worded to appear impressive to anyone that is scammed by them.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Bit like their 2.5hp air compressors. Leave off the 2 would be closer to the truth.

[Lee CooperParticipant @leecooper46013]

Good point RE input vs output power guys- noted.

Just checked out the Sieg SC4 as per recommendations, it’s now over 1500 notes.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

You might be better off with the SC3 minilathe at 900 Quid then. Or if you absolutely need a bigger machine, a used Myford ML7 or Boxford or Raglan. Plenty around in good condition with little use in home workshops if you shop around.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

[Lee CooperParticipant @leecooper46013]

Well I don’t *think* it classes as a mini lathe but after much deliberation I’ve decided to go with a Warco WM180. If it’s not everything I hoped for I rest safe in the knowledge that I can bitch to SillyOldDuffer about it.. 🙂

Can’t wait to get into the game and ‘be one of the boys’ so-to-speak.

[not done it yet said:]

On not done it yet said:

… ..Compressors were always quoted FAD until the chinese realised they could con the buyers by issuing higher numbers for less money.

Same with chinese heaters – cheap 8kW diesel air heaters do not exist and even the touted 5kW versions likely deliver only a tad ove 4kW.  And so it goes on….dupe the ‘less well informed’ buyers.

Sorry NDIY, but that’s just nonsense – reputable industrial suppliers have always quoted FAD, but ‘domestic’ / ‘hobby’ outlets such as DIY store chains and ‘Discount Tool Warehouses’  quoted displacement figures for compressors and input figures for power machinery for as long as I can remember..

IIRC things were so bad by the early 1980’s that there was an ‘air’ company (from, maybe ?Sheffield?) who were able to use ‘full disclosure’ of spec for home-gamers as a Unique Selling Point, closely followed of course by Axminster, who really promoted their ‘transparency’ as a marketing tool that proved hugely successful – both of these companies sold imported machinery.

Why perpetuate conspiracy theory couched in such such offensively racist terms?

 

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Nothing racist about pointing out poor quality or otherwise of goods manufactured in a specific country. Nothing to do with the race of the people working in or running the factories.

In many cases in the hobby market, it is the local (non-Chinese) importer/distributor who tells the factory what to make, or chooses which quality-level of product they want to slap their badge on.

But there are well documented problems with quality control in Chinese factories. Whole books have been written on the problem, which has come to be known widely as “quality fade”. ( LINK ) (Scroll down to read the summary)

It is not down to a matter of race, but rather of Chinese Communist party politics where corruption is endemic and huge pressures are put on factories to meet quotas and produce short-term profits. Nobody knows if they will be in business next year because the latest political purge may have removed their party mentor who is vital to getting party permission to run a business or factory. So they are focussed on making money while they are able to and the future be damned.

Meanwhile, the Chinese machine tool manufacturers in democratic Taiwan are recognised as among the world’s best. Their lathes and mills sell for ten times what the mainland Communist Chinese machines cost.

 

 

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

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