Coronavirus

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by roy entwistle on 26/03/2020 13:28:27:

It's time supermarkets introduced basket only days

It's complex. What you don't want is everyone having to shop each day. If you can supply everyone on a weekly basis ideally you would like to limit everyone to a weeks worth of supplies. I'm not against a standard ration box in extremis but you do have to establish how many in the household. You cannot issue more chilled or frozen stuff than people can store and many of us do not have huge freezers or fridges.

The goal is feed everyone but reduce their need to shop often. As I said it's complex.

regards Martin

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

The 2 metres rule for social distancing can only be a compromise, if it’s windy and you are downwind of someone then you could very easily be contaminated. I remember in 1967 when I was serving in the Air Force in what was then Trucial Oman, there was an outbreak of smallpox in the village adjacent to our airfield, we were all addressed by the medical officer who illustrated how contagious the virus could be by stating that in the past, infection had carried a distance of 5 miles on the wind. Whether he was trying to frighten us or not I don’t know but we were all vaccinated against smallpox again that day, irrespective of our vaccination status. It was a serious outbreak of the disease and one of the last major episodes of smallpox until it was finally considered eradicated. There were no casualties within our unit but the villagers were not so lucky. I think with my experience then, I am going to ensure that I stay indoors as much as is possible, I think that this may be the reason we are encouraged to stay indoors at home. Hopefully you will all stay safe.
Dave W

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Morrison’s have introduced a scheme whereby you can order a box of provisions for £35.00. You can state whether you are a meat eater or vegetarian but you have no choice other than that on the contents of the box. If you order by 3.00 in the afternoon then they will deliver the following day, boxes will be delivered by DPD. I assume the boxes are put together at a central warehouse and despatched using DPD’s next day delivery. There should be no reason that anyone need go without, however you won’t have any choice what you get but we are in an extraordinary set of circumstances.
Dave W

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Interesting shopping trip. I hadn't been out since my Gherkin purchase. Sliced bread,eggs,pasta, some canned veggies, loo roll and kitchen paper in short supply – but we didn't need any of that anyway. Plenty of fresh fruit, chill shelves of cheeses, cold meats etc and their freezers were full. Pet food was noticeably reduced but still a lot there – useful since my wife feeds 4 cats, the dog and every bit of wildlife in North Wales. And plenty of panadol re-appeared.
4 neighbours down the chap has barn hens by the many thousand so eggs would never be a shortage here – wife's hens are all too old to lay. My neighbour the other side has a dairy herd so again milk is never an issue in a shortage.
Lidl are limiting folk to 4 of anything..again not an issue since I have to give some respect to my liver by limiting the gin reserves…

More interesting we finally saw someone else wearing a mask and the bin outside was half full of disposable gloves – not that any other shoppers were wearing them while we were in..

pgk

Edited By pgk pgk on 26/03/2020 14:55:20

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I was not able to join the band of volunteers as I'm too old and being rather deaf, would not be of much use with the telephone help. It will help a lot if and when tests become available for antibodies which will allow people to finish their self isolation, and also more tests to find out if they actually have the infection. The symptoms vary so much in seriousness that the danger is that those with very mild symptoms can pass the virus to others without realising it.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/03/2020 10:39:28:

I may be the first forum member to have Coronavirus in the house. My daughter, who lives with me, is a key worker. Throughout the developing crisis she's been obliged to work as normal and meet people face to face. OK last night, this morning she has a temperature and cough. She looks like a person who might be starting flu.

Not panicking, I shall see how she is at lunchtime. If necessary I shall engage with the NHS Online 111 'What to do' web page. Adequately prepared I think, but time will tell.

The plan has already gone wrong – she's supposed to be looking after me!

Dave

I wish you and your daughter the best of outcomes, Dave – and soon. Hang on in there.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Bill Phinn on 26/03/2020 17:19:29:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/03/2020 10:39:28:

I may be the first forum member to have Coronavirus in the house. My daughter, who lives with me, is a key worker. Throughout the developing crisis she's been obliged to work as normal and meet people face to face. OK last night, this morning she has a temperature and cough. She looks like a person who might be starting flu.

Not panicking, I shall see how she is at lunchtime. If necessary I shall engage with the NHS Online 111 'What to do' web page. Adequately prepared I think, but time will tell.

The plan has already gone wrong – she's supposed to be looking after me!

Dave

I wish you and your daughter the best of outcomes, Dave – and soon. Hang on in there.

Thanks Bill. She's not too bad (out-of-sorts, temperature, cough, and aches) but was well enough to do the NHS 111 procedure herself and get the Isolation Note needed for Sick Pay. Been asleep all day apart from waking up for breakfast, dinner, and toilet breaks. Expected to be unwell for about a week.

We're avoiding each other as far as possible! However, maybe I've got it too because she will have incubated for 5 days before symptoms. I'm developing a slight cough, nothing alarming, be interesting to see how I get on tomorrow. I had a cold last week, perhaps that was it!

On the supply side, no excess pressure on my bog-roll stock. With ordinary fridge, freezer, canned and dry goods we could last longer than 2 weeks if necessary. The only thing I'm almost out of is washing powder. Not a problem, I smell like a badger already!

Dave

[LimpetParticipant @limpet]

Just a reminder for all in isolation, it might pay to disconnect your car battery and chock your wheels with handbrake off (in low gear or park, depending which way you park) I just went to start mine and it struggled. It could be a long haul yet

Keep safe all

[PeroParticipant @pero]

Thanks Duncan

It may well come to that. Still suffering a little from my polite upbringing but I doubt it will last much longer.

Biggest problem seems to be small children saddled with brain-dead mothers. Allowing a small child at any time to approach an unfamiliar dog has got to be a recipe for disaster, with the ultimate consequences likely to be greater for the dog than the child, unless perhaps it's a rottweiler.

At the present time it simply should not occur.

Time to express my inner grumpiness I think.

Cheers

Pero

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

So why does your 'powers that be' allow the crowding of people in the London Underground Tube System?

I saw the videos. Totally stupid IMHO.

* Danny *

[Bob n AboutParticipant @bobnabout]

We still have neighbours children kicking balls and other toys into our garden. Police advise us to inform them to stop…. Hmmm, I see where this is going, the mother is in denial of whats happening. Our stress and anxiety levels are through the roof.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

This is a difficult disease if the little information we can pick at is true. There is media evidence that it is communicable before signs emerge, possibly for some prolonged period after apparent recovery and at the moment no certainty as to how long immunity lasts after recovery.
Any talk of vaccines or magic treatments is many months away – if indeed possible and what no-one talks about is that this virus mutated from an animal strain and we know that it continues to make small changes to it's RNA whch allows some forensic tracking. The old-fashioned approach to vaccine creation was to find a similar germ that our bodies could respond to harmlessly but would give cross-protection against disease germ (smallpox-cowpox) or by serial passage through another species to create a weakened version. Equally multiple passages through the target species can lead to stronger versions and (again according to media) we have at least 2 major variants of CORVID-19 already, albeit of similar effect.
Talk of 'herd immunity' is misleading. the press implies that the disease stops spreading. it doesn't – it just reduces the rate of spread- which for a crude analogy might give some the chance to die of old age before catching it.
For some good news at least the virus isn't particularly persistent in the environment .

Then we have the problems of human nature. Governments have lost a lot of credibility over the last decades with most of us a lot more cynical about their motives and honesty. While they are trying to deal with this pandemic they still try to put one over on their competitiors while showing an innocent face of solidarity and no-one can really believe the numbers coming out of repressive regimes. The other aspect of human nature is the public. The usual deniers, the nature of trying to keep things normal and selfishness and the fact that we have become soft as well as a mix of the best of human nature with self-sacrifice and volunteers.

Reality will bite harder as people meet or hear of friends who lose family or get horribly sick because the way things are we are probably all going to get this and like many of us here I know that my demographic gives me a high likelihood that wife or I or both of us won't make it through and the best we can hope for is to delay matters by stricter isolation, fewer interactions with society and hope that when it gets us there will be available help that is no longer swamped by the peak spread of this to improve our chances a little.

OK so that's the doom and gloom done. So what is the good news? My hope is that society learns some important lessons. Mostly that it doesn't have to continue the road of consumerism and profligacy. It doesn't need to have holiday flights abroad or huge gatherings at pop concerts and conventions and it doesn't need to try to beat the Joneses with the latest bit of tech or fashion and that a new behaviour is possible and in the interests of the whole planet.

Perhaps we'll also learn that globalisation wasn't such a good idea and we should go back to a more local source of manufacturing and more independance and security because these claimed 'once in a generation events' have a habit of happening over and over again. We've had enough warnings with spanish flu and the flu epidemic of '57 and got lucky with SARS and MERS being controllable – the next one might just be even worse.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Posted by pgk pgk on 27/03/2020 06:28:48:

OK so that's the doom and gloom done. So what is the good news? My hope is that society learns some important lessons. Mostly that it doesn't have to continue the road of consumerism and profligacy. It doesn't need to have holiday flights abroad or huge gatherings at pop concerts and conventions and it doesn't need to try to beat the Joneses with the latest bit of tech or fashion and that a new behaviour is possible and in the interests of the whole planet.

Perhaps we'll also learn that globalisation wasn't such a good idea and we should go back to a more local source of manufacturing and more independance and security because these claimed 'once in a generation events' have a habit of happening over and over again. We've had enough warnings with spanish flu and the flu epidemic of '57 and got lucky with SARS and MERS being controllable – the next one might just be even worse.

Agreed. Governments are no longer the servants of the people. There's little evidence that they wish to be caretakers of the people either. People are votes, so people-pleasing decisions are made, and short-term ones at that. 'The economy' – whatever that is – must grow, apparently at all costs. Like all bureaucracies, the prime purpose is to remain in position and to gain more control. Politicians believe what they want to hear and ignore what they don't like or don't understand. Bill Gates' TED talk of 2015 predicted this and suggested ways forward. It was ignored. Perhaps this will wake up the sheeple and make them demand that scientists be listened to.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Kiwi Bloke on 27/03/2020 09:05:30:

Posted by pgk pgk on 27/03/2020 06:28:48:

OK so that's the doom and gloom done. So what is the good news? My hope is that society learns some important lessons

…

Agreed. Governments are no longer the servants of the people. There's little evidence that they wish to be caretakers of the people either. People are votes, so people-pleasing decisions are made, and short-term ones at that. 'The economy' – whatever that is – must grow, apparently at all costs…

Governments have never been the servants of the people, anywhere or at anytime! We put up with them because they outperform all the alternatives. Least worst arrangement is democracy, because it allows the public to voice their displeasure every few years. Prevents despots taking over, ends grossly ineffective measures, and discourages unwise extremism.

But surely what's happening around the world in response to Coronavirus is direct evidence that governments do have a caretaker role? In the UK, we have a Conservative government that's dumped everything it holds dear: belief in private enterprise, financial prudence, market forces, deregulation, and self-help. It's replaced normal conservative governance with extreme socialist measures : direct interference in business and the private lives of citizens, tax holidays, subsidising businesses because market has collapsed, paying salaries, and about to pay the self-employed as well. Most businesses in the UK have been temporarily nationalised, police powers extended, and the Armed Forces have been deployed. All this in response to a public health issue, because Coronavirus is a threat to the community.

Problem for politicians is people are selfish, emotional, think they know better, and have short-memories. Surprising numbers suffer from disorganised thinking, an affliction worse than dyslexia and discalculia combined! Even me, and I'm the most perfect person I know.

Next year, voters will get the bill for all this. People will forget how much in favour they were of stopping the virus getting to them, assume they were perfectly safe all along, and become highly critical. So poor old Boris, elected to deliver Brexit and right-wing values, has been torpedoed by a global health crisis causing severe financial damage, consequences unknown. Who knows: depression, inflation, currency crashes, stock market instability, trade-wars, pension deficits, and mass-unemployment are all risks to be managed. Just guessing but I suspect Brexit will have to be kicked into the long-grass while more serious problems are addressed. Optimistically, although the government have committed about 20% of Gross Domestic Product to the problem, I'd expect the commitment to last less than a year, much less than we spent on WW2!

The immediate future is more unpredictable than usual. Be interesting to come back in a year or two and see what actually happened. And whose fault we think it was!

Dave

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

I have never understood this mantra of having to grow at "x" % every year…it is not possible. It certainly doesn't happen in nature, trees grow to a certain height then die. Trees don't continue to grow higher and bigger, otherwise the planet will have just one big tree.

Sustainable growth should be the key…

We are all saying that this virus thing will change things…..but when its over and in a years time I suspect we will revert back to pre-virus days….

Regards to all

Derek

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Could we perhaps draw back a little from the mud slinging. I understand peoples frustration and anxiety but I'm not sure it's very constructive at this point.

Changing the subject it did occur to me that keeping warm is a good way of reducing the calories you burn so stay warm in your house/shed and you may end up doing slightly less shopping.

Best wishes to everyone

Martin

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Daughter has decided that we are 'elderly', and so did the shopping for us. The soap she bought proudly claims to have zero detergent. It is palm oil, coconut oil, water, glycerin , oats, salt, citric acid (sodium citrate). I'm not a chemist, but I don't think sodium citrate is citric acid, and does citric acid kill coronavirus? If so I've got loads in my pickle bath.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/03/2020 17:41:27:

On the supply side, no excess pressure on my bog-roll stock. With ordinary fridge, freezer, canned and dry goods we could last longer than 2 weeks if necessary. The only thing I'm almost out of is washing powder. Not a problem, I smell like a badger already!

Dave

Hi Dave,

I missed you first post somehow, I think the forum jumped on to a new page.

I hope it goes well for all your family.

Neil

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 27/03/2020 10:45:07:

Could we perhaps draw back a little from the mud slinging. I understand peoples frustration and anxiety but I'm not sure it's very constructive at this point.

Changing the subject it did occur to me that keeping warm is a good way of reducing the calories you burn so stay warm in your house/shed and you may end up doing slightly less shopping.

Best wishes to everyone

Martin

I'm all for staying warm. Paradoxically you might be better burning more calories by doing cardio work to try and improve heart lung function – in case.

We could start a league table for the 100yd dash with a 4-jaw chuck; handicapped by lathe size. I've been going to the gym 4+ weekly for the last few years doing 10k on the rowing machine. To my horror I discovered that a few days skipped and my performance and strength dropped rapidly asa function of age and the prostate tablets. Early on when this pandemic looked likely to spread I sourced a machine for home but the discipline to use it at home was always going to be worse than going to the gym (and their superb showers).
For this aged gent the technique involves preloading with painkillers, putting a movie or talking book on phone and headset and plugging away for 45mins until I'm a sweaty painful wreck.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 27/03/2020 11:59:12:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/03/2020 17:41:27:

On the supply side, no excess pressure on my bog-roll stock. With ordinary fridge, freezer, canned and dry goods we could last longer than 2 weeks if necessary. The only thing I'm almost out of is washing powder. Not a problem, I smell like a badger already!

Dave

Hi Dave,

I missed you first post somehow, I think the forum jumped on to a new page.

I hope it goes well for all your family.

Neil

Thanks Neil,

Not bad so far. My cough of yesterday hasn't turned nasty. My symptoms are more like a mild-cold or hay-fever rather than flu. Don't believe I've got the dreaded lurgi myself. If I have, it's effect on pensioners has been greatly exaggerated!

Meanwhile, daughter has the usual ordinary flu symptoms, slightly worse than yesterday but no cause for concern. Tired, aching, hot-and-cold, dry cough. Unpleasant and uncomfortable as flu is but able to watch TV and do light tidying between naps. Got a phone call from her this morning demanding breakfast with menaces, so eating normally. (Modern technology eh? Bedroom to kitchen call via mobile phone network and BT landline. My dad would have had a fit!)

Keeping the bug in perspective, although potentially very nasty and to be avoided if possible, it's not an automatic interview with the Grim Reaper.

Dave

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks Dave, keep smiling!

I've heard from three people who have had covid-19 and recovered, none of them youngsters.

Neil

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Watching a few episodes of ' The Pacific ' and ' With the Marines at Tarawa', soon puts the present

situation in perspective !

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Day 5 of… 90?

People are already getting twitchy…

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I went shopping at the larger of the two Lidls in Weston Super Mare today. I noticed one pack of toilet rolls left but I was interested in the kitchen towels and bought four. There was even some pasta on sale. What I noticed most was the young couple who exited the shop with a pot plant and nothing else. Obviously not caring about anyone but themselves, so selfish.

[Bob McParticipant @bobmc91481]

Seeing one result of coronavirus is that there are very few aircraft flying…could it be that the good weather we are getting just lately has anything to do with it?

Or have I spoke too soon!.

[Author]

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