Cheap 3 in 1 tig welder – any one used one?

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I suspect it's down to skinny thighs. Asked for a 15lb bird and got a 12 1/4 lb. Not much comes out of fresh birds. Maybe I should have added water. Covered the breast well and stuck the temperature up. Still a touch low really but the juices are clear.

Looks like they are trying with the Einhell. I'd say it's not that much noisier than my oil small one that was ex b&q when they were selling power pro stuff. It's not power pro. The Einhell cuts out at 10 bar and back in at 8 and takes maybe 40 secs to get back up again. Could be less or a bit more than that. Looked at my watch too late.

Can't try the cutter for a while. Need some fitting to sort it out a little better than supplied – mostly to make it easy to change from cutting to tig. It just comes with hose ends and jubilee clips.

John

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[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by JasonB on 25/12/2016 14:49:00:

Posted by Ajohnw on 25/12/2016 14:35:19:

The turkey is proving problematic. Breast fine, thighs underdone.

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Give it a quick blast with the Plasma cutter that will soon crisp them up a bit

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Be handy when he does get the plasma cutter working and he's able to cut off the keyboard that's welded to the armchair and get out and about to do something.

You never know a bit of exercise might get him from XXXXXXXXXXL to XXL

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Wont be getting a so called fresh turkey from the same source again. They should cook in about 2/3 the time of the others. It came in a posh box with award stickers on it – probably given for a new way of selling at higher prices. Too much "juice" came out of it too. The eating aspect was ok though.

The compressor has a bit of a problem. No gauge on the output just tank pressure. Cheap to fix with a gauge and an unequal ended T piece. No drier. Down to the design I suspect as if fitted easily it would foul on the reservoir. Best answer seems to be some tube and compression fitting mounting the drier on a hole in part of the plastic mounting. Or maybe dangling on the pipe. I have some 10mm table w kicking about. If the rating doesn't measure up I will probably graft a V compressor pump onto it. The price didn't look to bad for a reservoir, control gear, frame and wheels etc. I think a 2hp one would do it easily.

Another mistake on the welder. The tube fitting on it is for 8mm I think. I bought 6mm assuming I could change the fitting using 1/4 bsp parts. It's 1/8 and also used to hold the gas valve in place. I hadn't measured the size of the what looks like aquarium pipe that comes with it either. I think that would take the pressure needed but thought if I have to buy tube may as well replace it. 8mm wouldn't have increased the cost of the bits significantly.

The holiday period is holding up getting bits and pieces anyway.

Standard size 17 tig torch parts wont fit the one that came with it. I did wonder but now have some. The fittings used appear to only be available from China.

The plasma torch does take standard fittings – It comes with a plastic shroud for the nipple nut that fits onto the welder. I assume this is due to the voltage. One problem. It's loose in the plasma torch bag and not fitted. To save taking the torch and lead apart I suspect I'll avoid touching it. When it's on anyway.

John

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[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The replacement tig torcj from cromwell proved to be a bad idea – no handle with it and the only seller on ebay who sells handles fit for many torches must be joking. I may have a use for that eventually though.

So now I have a spare torch head. I bought a complete one off amazon. Chinese seller with some stock in europe. Name something like Riverweld. They are in ebay too. Unlike the cromwell one it has a nice slippery cap on top of the torch for the o-ring on the cap to slide in. That part is silicone rubber on the cromwell one and the o-ring can roll off, get twisted, rolled over etc. The one that came with it is better but had the problem of only being able to get consumables from china.

I bought the spares of Riverweld too. Not sure on this but it was the only set that offered what I think is a sensible range of collet sizes. One 1mm, One 4mm and several 2.4 and 3.2mm ones. There isn't much info about on this subject other than how much current can be put through the different sizes. One advice on here some where is treat yourself to some 2.4mm. When I have seen tig being used I've never seen anyone change the electrodes size only the current – way down in some cases. So my guess is that 2.4 and 3.2 are the sizes to have and tip angles etc may need playing with according to some. 4mm might come in useful for some ones idea of how to go about welding aluminium with a DC welder. Yes before some one says can't be done. I am aware of that.

As mentioned when I was trying to get info on air fittings 'cause that is needed for an easy change over from tig to cutting I've decided to use euro. Cost including adding a drier and output gauge to the compressor is about £60 but that's for mostly steel fittings. Given use and where the stuff will be kept I'm going to change that to brass. While nickel plating doesn't corrode what's under does if any wears off. I think the couplers will be cheaper but oddly some of the fittings are more expensive.

Shortly I may have time to get out and see what gas bottles can be sourced very locally Then I'll phone BOC.

John

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[Ray LyonsParticipant @raylyons29267]

I have just come onto this subject where I have had some experience which may be of some help to you. Some time ago, before the modern machines, I bought a 3 in 1 welder very heavy and needs a trolley to move about. I will try to take some photos and post them up. In the meantime, I would suggest that you go to your local motor factors and enquire with them about the supply of welding gasses. When I bought my machine and at first hired the small Argon cylinders from BOC but soon found that the hire costs prohibitive. I now have an argon bottle from Barnet Gas Supplies with a one off payment for the cylinder and only paying for the gas as required. I have recently found that my local motor factors are agents for SGS Welding Gasses which work on the same basis as Barnet but because they are local, no carriage charges are involved.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

That's why I am going to ask locally Ray. There has been mention of BOC offering a special deal for amateurs so will enquire but given the amount of use and also convenience I may choose the none rental option. There is a motor factor local that seems to be an agent and also a very helpful hire shop that may do something on the same lines or could. I've been known to buy trend router cutters off him as he is so helpful. Once he found out about his discount he said please come back again. He gave me a decent discount too.

John

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[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

What a clusterfcuk of a post.

Wrong regulator, wrong compressor, changed the tip torch for another one which is no good either.

No sign of any gas supply.

This is a perfect post for how not to buy a 3 in 1 and piss about with it when you don't have a clue despite asking and being told many, many times.

[Bob GitshamParticipant @bobgitsham90361]

yep, I been thinking that for a while, I suspect this guy is just looking for someone to disagree with. It pisses me when people ask for help and get a heap of good advice, then go and stuff it up because of their own stupidity, ignorance and arrogance.

The moderators should pull him up, tell him, if he's not prepared to listen then at least do us all a favour and shut up.

Bob.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Yep, what do they say? Buy cheap, buy twice. And it's clear that they know now about pcp airguns either! (Here's a really old link to airgun regulators, for any one remotely interested:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?98032-Accuracy-Regulated-vs-unregulated

Certainly moved on in ten years but only the really expensive ones are electronically operated these days (and likely not anything on the pressure regulation side, either!).

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

What a pair of twerps but please do carry on. Most people get their kicks in others ways but others can sometimes be a bit weird. Usually these people are called trolls. The last 2 posts are definitely people who want arguments or at least some sort of reaction and haven't anything better to do. So now they have a reaction – please read it.

I have taken the very limited advice that has been given in this thread. Just ignored one that I also had a pm on – don't buy. It will do this and that 'cause I bought one and it did etc. The cutter is a plus for me so the fact that some will cut 1/2 inch easily isn't relevant to my needs. I asked if anyone had used one more to mention that it's about really. Actually some one else on here has one and has used it. Why not go an pollute that thread.

It was petty obvious that the compressor didn't have a dryer etc when I decided to buy it – big deal. The welder comes with one actually.

What on earth do I need to go out and buy gas for it now as I haven't any intention of using it yet.

Wrong regulator really makes me laugh. It's the type I wanted. No point in a dual reg as the welder came with one but actually I think the one I bought will be fine.

Advice – I haven't asked for it that much at any time anywhere and when I have asked only get any from people who generally do help people.

The welder has 2 sad points so far. The torch – can only get bits for it from China and from getting sparks out of it I know I will prefer a flexible head. The gas input is naff. Not that unusual a style actually but I want to change it so will. It not really suitable for use with 2 different things going through it.

Good points so far. It strikes pretty easily. It's well built inside and out. It does makes sparks so does work. Some of the reports on them some time ago haven't. How long it will work for – no idea.

Next thing for me is if the compressor will provide the air the cutter needs according to the specs on other cutters with the same sort of power levels. It should but with hobby gear things can sometimes be over stated. Do I need to cut to do that – no. If it doesn't provide it I do know what I will do. Oddly I do have a reason for going this way even though the improvement will cost me about £230.

Frankly a very few people on here seem to be in need of a life. I can't see any point what so ever in being ratty because some one thinks something else about some subject or the other or choose to do things in certain ways. I most certainly don't. I just think ok do or think that – either way it makes no difference what so ever to me.

John

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[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by John Stevenson on 09/01/2017 21:38:21:

What a clusterfcuk of a post.

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Careful John. ……………….. He'll getcha.!!

Nick

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Nick_G on 09/01/2017 23:27:57:

Posted by John Stevenson on 09/01/2017 21:38:21:

What a clusterfcuk of a post.

.

Careful John. ……………….. He'll getcha.!!

Nick

LOL Good luck to him. I'll run. I'd better ask for more advanced lesson in Tai Chi. I'm too old now for boxing, judo and karate and to be honest looking back I don't think these did any good at all for my body long term.

One aspect to the the thread though is that I have tried to put some useful info in it. Stupid comments don't help. A lot read it and maybe my progress is not what some may choose. I have several things to do and some need doing before others.

I dealt with the regulator earlier. So no point repeating that. I suspect a single one will be ok. It might be a problem when the bottle gets rather low. If needed I'll include another. Probably the one fitted to the back or the welder.

Biggest problem with useful info is that when I get to do the work I bought it for if I find tig too tough to do the job in a reasonable time I'll use stick as I know I can do that quickly.

John

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[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

It's now lost in the mists of time, way back in this thread, but with many of these deals you lose a lot of your deposit after a while, so "rent free" becomes rather debatable. It's in the fine print that many others before have read / discovered….

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The one I linked to in sutton coldfield states one off and refundable at any time but it could be worth reading the fine print also looking after the bottle. Strange gas charges though as the bottle a lot of diy might go for is under filled. They are to far away to appeal.

I did do some web searches on the BOC deal. I found a post that said not available any more. Could just be for new users. No info at all on price and some mention of argon lite which I assume has helium in it. So came to the conclusion that it would be best to phone and ask. Which I will. I have to go collect my air fittings soon. May call in on possible bottle sources on the way back.

From my point of view I have no idea how often I will use it or really how fast the gas will go. I get the impression that if really rent free the next bottle up from X might be the best bet.

Gas – I needed to mix some plaster this afternoon. A gas person calling sometime this afternoon. Bet he would have turned up if I had started. Just arrived.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 10/01/2017 16:59:54

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

John,

I currently have no particular interest in the topic … but it keeps going, so I thought I might chip-in:

This firm seems to be 'open and honest', so may be of interest: **LINK**

http://www.davidsmithson.co.uk/gas/Data%20Sheets.html

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

If people want to source gas I think that the best option is to look at the gas content. Some supply from memory 230 bar or even higher so more goes in the same cylinder size.

Taking an example this page

**LINK**

I don't think I would go for the suggested diy option due to the price of the gas per litre. In my view I'd go for the larger one even if it took me n years to empty it.

I suspect the comment about refundable if undamaged is pretty normal.

It seems that gas consumption runs at something like 7l/min so people could choose on the basis of how long they intend to weld for.

Searching rent free welding gas brings up several sources. Some have agents and maps showing where those are. Getting actual prices seems to be more difficult. Then a question I would ask is do they keep stock. Delivery is bound to cost. BOC charge even if it's collected. It's just a case of summing up the cost really and hoping that the paint on the cylinder doesn't get damaged if it's rented. Light weight dive bottles can be damaged ever so easily. Maybe argon bottles use the same sort of paint.

John

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[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

I've been using http://www.sgsgases.co.uk/.

Last time I looked they were cheaper than BOC.

 

I get their argon from the local motor factor. The only trouble is that they are geared up for the motor trade.

I phone up and as for pure Argon, and when I get there, they only have Mig Mix.

They're usually coy but I think it's because they they think they know better.

 

If you go in and ask they will give you a price. A proper bottle should be £90 inc vat, nominal. Will last a year with maybe four small projects and one bigger one.

The Mig Mix is cheaper but it's no good for TIG.

CO2 is active, and it makes a mess of the welds.

Sadly Pure argon isn't very good for MIG either.

 

Have fun, and feel free to ignore.

Edited By Andy Ash on 10/01/2017 18:41:07

I should say, you do get about £20 on the bottle when you return it.

Edited By Andy Ash on 10/01/2017 18:55:34

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Adams gas give prices of gas and delivery, just add a bottle to your order to see the price

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

SGS are one of the ones I will go and ask. They do have agents all over the place. I have wondered about stock, that's while I'll ask. It's a motor factors but a pretty big one for a local company.

I don't really fancy getting into a mail order supply if I can get it when I want it. Not ruling it out yet. I think some include empty bottle collection with a delivery.

I was going to ask at webbs hire but much to my amazement they have gone in the couple of months since I drove past them. Busy place too. I vaguely remember seeing a bottle store. Seems we need yet another big Tesco's in an area that already can't cope with the traffic that uses the roads around where it will be. Also caused the loss of a salvage yard and a few other useful small businesses.

Then there is another hire shop I have often bought things from rather than hired. He may have something sorted if any of his customers use it. He doesn't mess about so might even keep stock.

My initial thoughts was BOC as it doesn't take long to get to Redditch, B'ham's closer but time to it can vary. Boring drive too. Then I found their price list and noticed the charge for collection. No wonder people moan about them. I've heard moans from users at work a number of times. Lucas of old probably had a much better deal than I could get.

There are a couple of places around where I can ask if they know anyone who does rent free but I suspect they use BOC.

I thought I had seen mention of argon and helium mixes for tig. Not sure were and was really looking for suppliers so may have miss read. If it's about I think I would rather stick with argon,

No interest in mig. I sold my mig welder some time ago. I wont say why as it will lengthen the thread so please leave it at that.

John

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[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Not sure how much they charge but our local Air Products distributor rents cylinders by the day / week / month etc.

I have not been in there for some time so do not know if that system still exists or even if this is Air Products standard practice, it may be another avenue to look at if there is an agent in your area.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ajohnw on 10/01/2017 18:18:39:

… Getting actual prices seems to be more difficult. < etc. >, < etc. >

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… Which is why I mentioned a source that appears to be 'open and honest'.

I have no further comment.

MichaelG.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

It's a pity you can't use hot air to weld with.

He's creating enough.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Anyone come across these bottles. This price if for the bottle outright filled with gas. Refills £60.74

**LINK**

Not sure what 10 lb means. If weight of argon it would be about 7.5m^3 at 20C I suspect that isn't what they mean.

Also found a place that will sell me 240,600 or 950L of liquid argon. Wonder what pressure that is at. Boiling off I would suspect.

**LINK**

John

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[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Another in Brum is Energas. Not sure how they sell gas but Smethwick and a trip down the worst long high street in Brum. Google reckons 18min. If t wasn't for the usual 5 to 6 buses going along stopping every 100 yds that might be correct.

I needed a new pump for the boiler a couple of months ago. Same area and took nearly 1hr. Bit quicker coming back.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 10/01/2017 23:13:25

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

You can use helium for TIG but it is mighty expensive. Over in the states it is common to call the TIG/GTAW process Heliarc because they often use helium by default.

To save money you can mix helium and argon. Typically you would need a regulator for each and some kind of mixing valve.

You would only need to mix if you wanted to get some of the helium advantage without fully paying the price.

The advantage of helium is a higher power arc. Helium gas has a higher ionisation potential than argon, and that means the voltage generated across the arc gap is higher. If the voltage is higher for any given current then the arc is more powerful.

You might want to use this for say copper welding. I don't think there is a reason why you couldn't weld copper with argon, but most hobby welders run out of welly before they can be usable on a material like copper. With helium, perhaps you can get a bit more energy into the material.

I don't know exactly how big the practical advantage is, but I'd hazard a guess that it's about 1.5 times on the current setting. If you have a 200A welder on argon that might be the difference between a silver soldered and welded copper boiler.

Edited By Andy Ash on 11/01/2017 00:18:14

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