Buying lathes direct from China

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Was checking the price for a BT300 (roughly equivalent of SIEG SC10, bit below a Chester Craftsman in weight).

Compared to a Craftsman I would save £1000 and get a roughly same specification lathe. Price is after delivery and VAT, etc.

Anyone got warning stories of their experience importing heavy equipment? Would be the heaviest thing I have bought abroad by 200 kilos so could go wrong who knows.

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Warranty? "Yes, sir, of course we'll fix it if due to a manufacturing defect, please arrange shipment back to us so we can check"!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A quick look an the net seems to show them supplied with just a 3-jaw chuck so you need to allow for the fact the likes of Warco and Chester include a 4-jaw, faceplate, fixed and traveling steadies so that's £250-300 off your £1000.

Current Craftsman also includes 2-axis DRO say £3-400. Also has a gearbox and extra capacity in the Gap

You only mention VAT and delivery, what about import charges have you looked up what they are likely to be plus collection fees?

Will it be CE approved, could affect your insurance if a fault burnt the house down or caused a permanent disability

J

Edited By JasonB on 13/02/2019 16:14:30

Edited By JasonB on 13/02/2019 16:15:51

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

On another forum it was pointed out that the delivery included was to your container consolidation depot in China, not the next few thousand miles. Even then some deliveries are only as far as the UK port warehouse. It's the sort of thing you want to start off small and build up expertise in importing.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

As importer you are likely to be responsible for ensuring compliance of the equipment with any relevant EU Directives.

You'll be charged a processing fee / handling charge by whoever collects the VAT and import duty, and if unlucky could also be charged storage if it gets held up whilst in their facility.

Payment costs – exchange charges, rate movements, possible intermediary bank charges.

Be clear about whose insurance is covering loss or damage en-route. If supplied FOB, it's yours as soon as it's loaded on the ship.

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

For the minimal savings you might or might not see i would not go that route of importing direct from China. Simply not worth the possible unseen problems that might develop.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It is possible to import a machine successfully, but to make a decent saving you need to know the factory AND know what you are doing. Ideally, you check it over at the factory and select the machine you want – returns are not very practical.

As mentioned above there are a lot of potential pitfalls and I would be wanting to see a much bigger potential saving.

Import duty will probably be 2.7% and VAT is on shipping and duty as well as purchase price. You can't get away with having '$1.50 gift' written on a lathe…

If it arrives after Brexit there will probably be a different tarriff/import duty, plus you will be paying in dollars so prices can be pretty fluid..

Insurance could costly – but otherwise if the container goes over the side or gets dropped and the lathe is damaged, you've lost it.

Personally I wouldn't buy anything direct that I'm not willing to chalk up to experience if it all goes wrong.

Neil

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

I agree with Neil, I would not buy anything direct from China I could not afford to lose. With the shipping time being 2 or 3 months, it will arrive after Brexit, and nobody has the fainest idea what will be happening. My SIL is a accountant for a shipping company, and they know no more about it than we do, its driving him mad!

Edited By Adam Mara on 13/02/2019 17:55:03

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Act in haste, regret at leisure, seems to be the appropriate motto here. So many things could go wrong and unless your Mandarin is up to scratch you could be up the creek without the proverbial paddle.

Doug

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

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[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

This is all about how you want to manage risk. What you get from a UK supplier is a service that sorts out the aggro, but it's moderately expensive and they take a reasonable profit. Choosing to import the lathe yourself could save money but it's a gamble you might lose.

I feel buying direct only makes sense provided you have the financial muscle needed to cope if the deal goes sour. Someone who is financially comfortable could laugh off the loss, but not so funny if you are on a tight budget. If you're poor losing your money and/or being walloped with extra charges could be seriously painful.

Probably not a good time to try the experiment because almost everything to do with International Trade is in flux at the moment. For example, if the lathe were shipped direct from China to the UK, then I wouldn't expect any delay or tariff snags. But, if – as is quite likely – the container is shipped to the UK via Rotterdam, then extra charges and customs complications are certainly possible. I'd wait and see if April brings any clarity.

Dave

Edit:  Must learn to type faster – I see Barrie got in first with the same point!

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 13/02/2019 18:59:08

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 13/02/2019 18:47:29:

Posted by Rainbows on 13/02/2019 15:49:38:

Was checking the price for a BT300 (roughly equivalent of SIEG SC10, bit below a Chester Craftsman in weight).

Compared to a Craftsman I would save £1000 and get a roughly same specification lathe. Price is after delivery and VAT, etc.

Anyone got warning stories of their experience importing heavy equipment? Would be the heaviest thing I have bought abroad by 200 kilos so could go wrong who knows.

Rainbows

I have not imported a lathe from China but I did import a laser cutter, there are a lot of pitfalls and some hidden costs over and above the VAT, duty and insurance.

The big problem is if something gets broken in transit then the whole thing will be a PIA.

Regarding CE marking a number of Chinese factories have no respect for CE marking, full CE marking is a resonably involved game, but there are approval houses that will do back door approvals for just about anything.

One German company that I know was told by a Chinese manufacturer that he thought CE stood for China Export !!! see below.

https://www.cnc-step.com/infos/diy-hobby-cnc-router-kit/

My final word is dont do it unless you can afford to gamble the complete cost, in case the whole deal goes down the pan.

Regards

Barrie

The CE compliance mark and the China Export mark are deliberately similar to fool unsuspecting people into thinking they have bought a CE-marked item. Once you know, it's easy to tell them apart. Quite simply if you continue the C around to make it an O, on the CE mark the edges will meet but on the China Export mark they cross over each other.

**LINK**

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/02/2019 18:56:43:

For example, if the lathe were shipped direct from China to the UK, then I wouldn't expect any delay or tariff snags.

Not many people appreciate that Brexit may mean trade deals with third parties like China fail because those are actually deals between China and the EU not China and the UK…

N.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

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[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 13/02/2019 19:36:53:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/02/2019 18:56:43:

For example, if the lathe were shipped direct from China to the UK, then I wouldn't expect any delay or tariff snags.

Not many people appreciate that Brexit may mean trade deals with third parties like China fail because those are actually deals between China and the EU not China and the UK…

N.

Yes that's true, I didn't mean all was well between the UK and China whatever happens next! What I meant was an order placed directly between the UK & China before March 29th would complete normally provided the shipment didn't go via Europe. To deal with that situation, the UK and EU have to agree a new arrangement.

The situation if you want to buy from China after March 29th, isn't clear either. The UK has no trade deal with China, so -at best – rather complicated WTO rules would apply until something else is sorted out.

Complicated and uncertain, which is why I suggested waiting before buying anything significant direct from China (or anywhere else!) In comparison buying from a UK supplier is much less risky.

Dave

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

The CE label thing is quite deliberate. China doesn't recognise copyright and won't until it suits its own interests. That's why so many of their products are copies of European products. Even there cars are copies of European models.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 13/02/2019 20:04:34:

Who is going to stop the imports? The Chinese will still ship the product and custom's and excise have said something along the lines that they are not going to stand in the way of trade.

Whatever anyone thinks of Brexit, business will continue, the economy is too big for both suppliers and consumers for it to trip over.

B.

Imports won't stop, but costs may well go up. It's likely WTO rules will apply. We don't have a trade deal with China.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

CE marking is the responsibility of the seller. If you are the buyer it is not your problem. If you sell it on it will become your problem.
What would be better for you would be to find a factory that will sell you the metal only, no motor and no wiring then a) it is not an electrical item, b) it is a part to build an item so should attract a different duty, c) you can then fit a nice 3 phase motor with an inverter made in ???

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Why not negotiate a (vastly reduced) price for them sending you a complete kit of all the individual parts in the lathe … it's probably what you'll end up doing anyway.

[PeroParticipant @pero]

Firstly I would endorse the comments by Neil and others – if you are not prepared to accept the worst case outcome of a potential 100% loss then do not proceed.

I have not purchased a lathe from China but have purchased a CNC router and a small CNC multi-axis mill.

The router – large, heavy and had to be transported by sea. It arrived not configured as ordered (to paraphrase the response – so sad, too bad never mind. Don't worry we will look after you – they didn't!

The extent of corrosion found on various parts ( feet, nuts and bolts etc.) led me to wonder whether it was one they found out the back when having a clean-up or whether it was just bolted to the deck of the boat for the trip to Australia.

Finally the ordeal ( and cost ) of getting it through the customs formalities and delivered to my home made it something I would not do again.

That said – it is very solid and does work as advertised (apart from the niggling physical configuration issue).

The second exercise in heavy imports was the CNC mill. It was small enough to be sent by air through a reliable courier and was delivered to the door with no issues other than needing a more detailed invoice from the supplier ( no issue there ) for the GST calculation ( this is now done automatically when paying for Aliexpress orders for Australia ).

Only problem was that some Berk, when partially dismantling it for shipment, had left various mounting screws sticking out and some of these had been bent in transport ( not a major issue to replace ). Packing – lightweight ply box for air shipment could have been better.

I had to do a fair amount of dismantling to move it ( it is not all that light! ) and haven't yet had the opportunity to test it out but all of the sub-assemblies seem to be fine and looks good value for the money.

So – by air possibly, by sea most likely not.

In both cases these were items where I could not obtain a reasonable equivalent item at a cost I could hope to afford in Australia – I note these were low end commercial use items – and I was prepared to take a punt.

In the case of a standard lathe or mill I would definitely shop local – you might find that the apparent saving of the import ends up being an illusion.

That said, I did import my Cowells lathe but that's a much different, and much happier story from those few days when the Australian dollar was worth more than the plastic it is printed on!

Pero

 

 

 

 

Edited By Pero on 14/02/2019 03:10:47

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Not a lathe, but I purchased one of these a year ago **LINK**

It cost me $256Au shipped and arrived in ten days. This was prior to when 10% GST added tariff came into effect. Even with 10% added it would still be a bargain.

The best local price that I was quoted was $750Au + $25 postage with 14-21 days delivery.

I prefer to support local business but at almost 1/3 the local price I decided that the risk was worth it and it was.

* Danny M *

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Ive bought alot of smaller items from China over the years and had very few problems. However for something as large and costly as a lathe I wouldn’t bother. It’s not worth the hassle and risk IMO. There is plenty of good suppliers in the UK and obviously you will have atleast some after sales support. If you are looking to make savings why not try secondhand? There is lots of nearly new machines out there if you can find one locally.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I've a mate who bought a minilathe direct from China. But when I looked into doing the same it seemed that with the shipping costs and various fees and taxes it was not much cheaper than buying locally. Not enough to make it worth taking a punt on no warranty, no return, no service etc.

If it were a screaming bargain to import a lathe direct from China I would expect many people would be doing it — which they aren't. In this day and age of internet commerce that pretty much says it all.

[Author]

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