Best way to do small production run?

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi All,

I am looking into having some small parts made and have no experience of the best way to proceed.

One part is a thin ( approx 2mm) blade as shown so needs to be in tool steel and will be in to slightly different sizes

The other part is originally in cast iron which has then been machined on 2 faces. It is approx 46 x 42 x 11.5 finished.

I envisage getting 20-50 of each part made if possible.

I am happy to model these in Fusion 360 subject to getting the models inspected by someone with more experience than myself before proceeding.

I have no idea of the methodology of getting this done or the viable options available and of course whether the cost can be economic.

Laser cutting, water jet, and casting are the options I guess?

I would appreciate any help here please.

Cheers,

Martin

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

[egaParticipant @ega]

Are these for a wood plane and, if so, which?

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi ega,

The casting is a fence for a Stanley No:71 and the blade is for the larger Preston Ornate Adjustable spokeshave.

The Preston blades are in two slightly different sizes with the slots in different positions, these are usually unusable because they are worn out with honing.

There is also a RECORD version of the cast fence which is totally different but I have lent mine to someone for a while so cannot post a picture yet.

Cheers, Martin

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

It occurs to me that I would be able to do the machining on the cast and possibly save money?

If it was CNC or whatever then no point I guess?

Martin

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Certainly for the blade, water or laser cutting would be ideal. You would probably need to supply the material as all the companies I have used carry stock of steel, aluminium etc but I doubt anyone has gauge plate (or some other heat treatable steel). I would contact several companies with a DXF outline of the part and ask if they can handle it. There normal jobs would be from 8×4 feet sheets and not all companies will want the bother of cutting parts from strips or small areas of stock.

Getting the cast part made by CNC I suspect would be uneconomic but I have no experience of what the casting smallish quantities might cost.

Ian P

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi
The Cast Iron casting looks like a good candidate for wax investment casting. You should be able to find a foundry that can do it for you. It is possible to 3D print the core pattern that is then melted out although a proper machined mold for the cores would give a better finish. the foundry may be able to work directly from the Fusion file and make the pattern from that.

**LINK**

investment casting is very accurate the finish will be as good as good as or better than the finish on the part in your photo.

I don't know much about Plane Irons, A quick Google search found a good selection of links on the subject, you are not alone,

**LINK**

Regards
John

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you can machine the casting I can't see why you can't make the blade, it is only a couple of angled cuts, a pocket with straight sides, another slot with angled ends and a radius at the top. If you had the laser or water cut you would still have to do the slot ends which are probably the slightly more difficult items but not that hard to do.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi Jason,

I was concerned about how long it might take to do lets say 30 blades? Could they be ganged up perhaps?

Is gauge plate available in that thin size I have just checked and it is 1.6mm

Martin

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Ist attempt at blade in Fusion:

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Have added 5mm to 'replace ' the worn front edge. As is usual on these there is not enough left to give any projection below the sole.

Martin

[egaParticipant @ega]

Martin King 2

Thanks for answering my query which was, of course, OT.

Following up your information, I was initially stymied by the fact that there is also a Stanley no 71 spokeshave/rabbet plane. Your casting is, of course, the fence that goes underneath the well-known router plane.

Good luck with your project!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Imperial Gauge plate would come in at 1/16" and metric you can get in 1.5mm and 2mm. Quite a few of the aftermarket plane irons are made thicker than original.

I suppose it all comes down to what it will cost to have them cut vs what you value your time at. Probably as easy to do them as individual parts with a few simple stops and something to set the angle then you can do one process quickly on them all before altering the setup for the next batch.

If you can do the small slot as shown in your sketch rather than how it is cut in the blade then that will speed things up and everything except the bevel could be water jet cut. Not sure if the heat from Laser cutting would make the edge a bit hard, really depends on how slowly the part was cooled.

If you produce a DXF file from your drawing that can be e-mailed to the cutters for a quote, try Sciss as they are model engineer friendly, I've used them a few times. At least once you have a price you can work out what method will be best based on what they can be sold for (I'm assuming you won't use them all yourself)

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Water jet cutting will eliminate any possible edge hardening from laser cutting but if the part has to be heatreated anyway then laser cutting would be significantly cheaper than water. Both methods can give good edge finish so only the cutting edge would need any finishing.

I have had quotes for both cutting methods from several companies, for the same parts. I have had jaw dropping and bargain quotes, for the same part cut by the same method so its definitely worth shopping around. One silly quote I found out later was that I asked for a thickness of aluminium they did not stock so were charging the whole sheet to the job (even after a phone call where I explained I would use the whole sheet over a year).

Thanks for the link Jason, I will definitely try them when I next need water cutting

Ian P

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Um, copyright?

[egaParticipant @ega]

It would be surprising if the Preston blades were still in copyright.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

ega

quote: Stanley no 71 spokeshave/rabbet plane.

Are you sure?

Nothing showing in Patrick's Blood & Gore!

If you don't use this give yourself a treat, Patrick is a great mate of mine and this is THE definitive Stanley work.

Ian P

quote: I have had quotes for both cutting methods from several companies, for the same parts.

Ian, Do you mean literally for the same parts? If so please PM me.

John Haine,

There are other makers who use the same type of blade, (probably pinched from the Preston design). I have no intention of using the Preston trade mark stamp, (though I do know of one! )

Can anyone please enlighten me as to the options for the cast part, methods, pros & cons etc.

Cheers, Martin

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

ega:

Link here http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html

Martin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Martin,

Your cast component triggered memory of this: **LINK**

http://wwlathetools.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/step-1-imagining-ww-lathe-steady-rest.html

… I believe he had the items printed by Shapeways.

MichaelG

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Martin King 2 on 24/01/2018 18:04:23:

Ian P

quote: I have had quotes for both cutting methods from several companies, for the same parts.

Ian, Do you mean literally for the same parts? If so please PM me.

John Haine,

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Stanley No 71 was lovingly known by my joiners as an old woman's tooth

As you can see I still have mine & although old technology & I had a stair trencher that would knock out a matching pair of stair strings in 7 minutes it still came in handy for trimming up odd little bits at the bottom of the trench , especially on winders if the overhead router missed a bit

I wonder if the OP has not been asked to make the depth stop as this is quite useful in some operations

See enclosed pictures

But thinking laterally the cast iron bit does not need to be quite like that it can be in a more rectangular shape in plastic with a slot & an elongated piece of metal sunk into the slot to act as a washer to support the pressure from the holding screw. The side skirts are note necessary.

The end with the hollow is for running against a curved section. The part could be made in something like tuffnol whale & be perfectly adequate & easy to machine in a mill

 

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 24/01/2018 19:23:14

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Martin King 2 on 24/01/2018 18:04:23:

Ian P

quote: I have had quotes for both cutting methods from several companies, for the same parts.

Ian, Do you mean literally for the same parts? If so please PM me.

John Haine,

Cheers, Martin

By 'same' I meant parts I had designed and sent the same DXF to different companies. I have not made any plane blades or had parts cut from gauge plate, sorry cannot be of much help.

Ian P

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by John Haine on 24/01/2018 16:52:40:

Um, copyright?

Like Stanley Knife Blades?

[JonParticipant @jon]

Posted by Martin King 2 on 24/01/2018 18:04:23:

Can anyone please enlighten me as to the options for the cast part, methods, pros & cons etc.

Cheers, Martin

John McN answered that earlier or the lost wax method.

Would add to that cost of drawing the part up and converting over £x. Need a printed part £ expensive for every end product cast. If took 30 castings would require 30 prints.
When got the finished castings will still then need two machining ops which wont be cheap.

As before water jet 2.5mm thick or any oversize. Not mentioned by anyone end products will need a basic cutting profile and not a lot to jig off in bulk, then hardening and tempering, again not cheap. Then need grinding to thickness since metal will warp and a proper jig to grind cutting edge up.

May need a small morgage.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi sam,

These planes are usually found with the depth stop and one cutter, it is always the fence and other two cutters that go AWOL.

I need to make parts that are as close to original as possible.

Martin

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