Alba 1A advice

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

Evening all,

new to the forum and recently posted in the introductions section.

I would really like some advice on an old Alba 1A shaper that I've just started to strip and clean.

I would just like to know if you all think it's worth my while carrying on with the job. it looks like it's had a rough ride at some point, with broken components (externally). Inside, the gears all seem spot on.

I feel like I owe it a new lease of life as it's been sat in our allotment shed for well over ten years now.

The clutch looks very non standard as does the operating lever and its operating eccentric thing. Honestly, any help or advice would be very much appreciated.

Cheers

Geoff.

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

I have an Alba 1A myself. It was ex school and had been cleaned up by the fellow club member who had bought it from the school, so I have not needed to get inside much. They are a good machine, a handy size for the home workshop, so depending on how much work is needed it could be well worth the trouble. Do you need me to take a look at the clutch bits on mine to see how they compare? I think I can find you a photocopy of the owners manual somewhere.

regards

John

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

Hi John,

that would be very helpful thank you. Any measurement or photographs would be great too.
the part that is most confusing to me is the helical part in my last photo as it looks like it’s been filed to suit the random clutch that’s fitted.

thanks

geoff.

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

Well, this is torture. Anyone got any suggestions for removing old paint off this machine?

currently using a selection of old sharpened screwdrivers.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Geoff,

There are some videos on youtube about Alba 1A, this is the first:

Thor

PS I don't know if you have already found this site?

 

Edited By Thor on 04/07/2020 15:26:35

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

There is a manual and parts list on the vintage machinery web site for download (free).

Atlas manual and parts list

I assume it's the same as yours. The images are pretty poor quality, but the parts list and exploded diagrams are clear enough. Couldn't see a clutch on a quick skim through, though.

John

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

Hi Thor/John,

Thank you so much for the links and videos.
I’ll have a look when I’ve finished scraping paint for the day.

I will let you know how I get on with it.

regards

Geoff.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Hi Geoff, Well, your clutch is definitely a stranger. As you will see from the photos, it is supposed to be a cone clutch. Presumably it was giving trouble and someone has gone to a lot of bother to fit something different. I don't know why, since the original works quite well, and it would be easier to fix that if it wore I should think.

The way it works is that the pushrod from the other side pushes on a pin that goes through the spline part of the clutch inner and works in a slot through the splines on the shaft. So the big spring on the end is pushing the inner part into the cone on the big pulley when the clutch is driving. All very simple. I know cone clutches fell out of favour very quickly on early cars, but for the loads and speeds here it seems very adequate. After all, mine must be well over fifty years old now and works fine.

I hope the pictures are reasonably self explanatory. As for the way forward getting parts is likely to be a problem unless you are prepared to make them. If you would just like to get it going for a trial, you could just try locking up the clutch somehow, and just switch the power off when you need to. That is more starting loads on the motor, but would be OK for moderate use.

regards

John

[George JervisParticipant @georgejervis86082]

Hi everyone

I just have just brought one of these shaper's yesterday and I am going to restore it, it looks in fairly good condition, is their anywhere I can find out the date of manufacturer?

Many thanks

George

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

All i know about dates is what it says on http://www.lathes.co.uk/Alba/

So somewhere between the 30's and the 70's

John

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Hello George – My Alba 1A has this plate on the side. I know it reads "Elliot" but they bought Alba out IIRC around 1959/60. I read online somewhere that to date the machine reverse the third and fourth numbers on the plate which would make mine 1959.

Geoff – when I repainted mine I did very little scraping as the very thick paint covering was marred only by some really deep cracks so before rubbing down I filled the cracks with body filler and then painted.

Not sure whether the following link to my blog will work but if it does scroll down a bit to where I did a short piece on tarting mine up.

**LINK**

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

Hi John,

Thank you so much for going to the trouble of sending me those pictures. It's really appreciated and now makes perfect sense.

I might be able to make a new cone using the splined hub off my 'bitza' clutch setup. Just need to find a suitable bit of material, not something I'd have laying around at that size. Do you happen to know the height of the cone when its sat on your bench and the larger and smaller diameters of the cone? If she's back together now, don't worry about it. I have a feeling mine will always be a bit of a mongrel anyway.

Hi Rik,

That machine is a thing of beauty! I actually finished stripping the main body yesterday evening, but I might just use your body filler idea in the rest of it – Great idea.

[George JervisParticipant @georgejervis86082]

Hi Geoff

Just seen on E pay their is I clutch assemble for the Elliott 10m? Is this the same as the alba one? Might be some use if it is?

George

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

There are old new Alba shapers and newer new Alba shapers. The later versions all have the motor in the base. Older versions (some were fitted to a precarious looking pillar) may have the motor fitted to the rear of the machine or may have no motor at all but were driven by a lineshaft or wall mounted countershaft. There are detail differences between some of the older ones. Power crossfeed was fitted to all machines, vertical feed was an option.

daveb

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

Hi George,

Thanks for that. Just had a look but it looks different in that the friction surface 90 deg to the shaft as opposed to the cone type.

Real shame that. Maybe I should wait for some parts to come up for sale instead of trying to make parts that aren’t quite right.

Geoff.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

OK, some points arising from various posts…

Looks to me like Geoffs machine is the later model, as is mine.

The dating trick does not seem to work on mine, since the number ends with 16/99 I suppose that might mean machine number 99 from 61, eg 1961, but I dunno.

I've made a pretty horrible sketch of the clutch inner which I hope will help Geoff. The vertical dimensions were taken with a Vernier height scale, I would trust them to within about 5 thou or so. The others are with digital calipers so are probably a little better. The smudged one is 6 inches.

regards

John

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

Hi John,

Again, thank you so much for doing that and all your help.

That’s my kind of drawing, nothing horrible about it 👍🏻

Incidentally, my machine had lost all its ID plates in the dim and distant past. Guess I’ll never know how old it is.

kind regards

geoff.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Hi Geoff, I've sent you a personal message as well

regards

John

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

So, I decided to buy a second Alba 1A that came up for sale locally. This time a complete machine thankfully. My thinking was that it would help me to rebuild the original one and then maybe I could sell it on and free up a bit of money.
I think I was wrong.
the original machine was painted white inside, my new toy is red inside. Don’t know if this is an indicator to some of you? Differences I’ve noted so far are: the shape of the rocker arm castings, the angle of the dovetails on the ram. There are other subtle differences too.
So, the rocker arm and die block are badly worn on my new machine, as is the rocker arm pivot and it’s fork on the rocker arm. I feel a bit stupid for spending quite a chunk of money on it and it’s really not useable. I almost took it on face value that it was in good order but should have spent more time going over it first.
I’ll have to get it working now as I’ve invested too much time effort and money into it. My problem is that I don’t have access to a milling machine to allow me to do the work.
does anyone know anyone in the north east (preferably Teesside) that might be willing to take on the task for me.
I was hoping to be shaping like a goodun by now.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

It is interesting that there are differences in the castings like that, you would think that once you had a set of patterns they would keep being used.

My one is painted red inside, but I can't be sure if that is original or not since I think the outside had been painted by the last owner. It is a nice eggshell blue hammerite finish.

I'm a bit far away to be able to help with the machining, the nearest river being the Waikato rather than the Tees. It does look like you have got a good vice with it.

regards

John

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi, My Alba 1A has a huge single phase motor mounted at the back of the pillar. The open belt drive was originally a flat belt but I could never get it to stay on. Changed it to a V belt. No idea how old it is but the cast iron access door has the legend " Alba No.1 As Made" cast into it. It's the "As Made" bit that's intriguing. I think it's from WWII when makers had to rush machines out of the factory without all the usual cosmetic finishes. Is this correct?

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

Well, shaper number 2 is now in a million bits.

Ive spoken to a local engineering company who said that they can do all the work that’s needed. Hopefully it’s not going to cost an arm and a leg.

Here are a couple more pictures of the progress. I actually managed to get the big pivot pin out of this one. You can see the wear. The company that’s agreed to do the work said they would put a PB sleeve over the pin.

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

[Geoff BrearleyParticipant @geoffbrearley24273]

update:

The connecting rod, block and pivot pin are away to be re-machined. A new block will be roughed out for me to finish when it comes back. The pivot pin will be turned down , a sleeve made and also a top hat to close it off.

The gearbox is all cleaned up now and ready to go back in. There are a few teeth with the edges broken off, but still enough meat on them to operate ok.

Geoff.

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