Advice on lathe purchase

[Martin LoweParticipant @martinlowe20701]

I'm in the process of looking for a new lathe. At present I have a Myford ML7 and need a larger lathe, about 12" x 36" size. The models I am considering are the Chester Crusader, Warco GH1236 and the Excel D320 x 920. I would appreciate any comments about these lathes. I live in the north west, so Chester is quite close.

Thanks

Martin

[Martin LoweParticipant @martinlowe20701]

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

Hi and welcome Martin. The chap to look out for on here is "bogstandard" he has a Crusader, and what he doesn't know about the thing is not worth knowing.

Cheers Derek.

[Martin LoweParticipant @martinlowe20701]

Hi Derek

I'll look out for any info from "bogstandard", I need all the help I can get at this stage!!

Thanks again

Martin

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

A word of caution. I upgraded to a perfect example of a L5 from an ML7, with a view to selling the ML7. I like the L5 but I find it too big for many of the smaller items I previously produced on the ML7 and now find I need to keep both. They say that you can do on a big lathe what you can on a small one, maybe so but not in comfort!

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

Consider a Colchester Bantam which has a foot print only a bit larger than a Super 7 but has bigger capacity and is a very well made "proper" British lathe better than anything made in China!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> better than anything made in China!

Even better than their 7-axis CNC machining centres!

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

Neil,

Even better than their 7-axis CNC machining centres!

What a ridiculous comparison. And you know it.is.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Yes, but I find the reflex knocking of Chinese lathes rather tiresome as well.

Neil

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

Neil,

I quite agree. I have lots of Chinese equipment that I am happy with. I am not knocking Chinese stuff just making a comment based on 50 years of using British made equipment. My main criticism of Chinese made machines sold for the home workshop is they are often not rigid enough where it matters. I inherited a Chinese made pillar drill that has a No 2 Morse socket and a 5/8" drill chuck as standard. I can only use it for light work as any reasonable down force distorts the machine table down very easily. I also have a Meddings MB$ the table of which cannot be distorted in the same way no matter how much down force I apply – I have checked it with a DTI.

The Chinese drill is OK when account is taken of its weakness whereas the Meddings can be put to any task with no fear of table flexing.

In my opinion and that of other people who were bought up working on them a Colchester lathe cannot be beaten by any other in its class.

The Chinese lathes made for the home workshop or small commercial applications are obviously made down to a price so cannot be of the same quality as a British made industrial lathe.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Of course the interesting thing is that Colchester moved their production to China.

A good second hand Bantam in the back of MEW and a Chester Crusader are the same price and specification-wise are pretty much evenly balanced.

It's interesting that as well as camlock spindle and taper roller bearings, they even share details like a bed wider than the centre height. The Bantam has a slightly wider spread of speeds, but the Crusader has more speeds and a bigger bore spindle and next size up camlock. Both have dual metric/imperial screwcutting gearboxes. One could be forgiven for thinking they are aimed at the same market.

It would be interesting to have a direct comparison made between the two.

I suspect for most making the choice it will come down to the benefits of dealer support/warranty versus the unknowns of buying second hand, or more likely – personal taste.

Neil

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Tpau !

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Also watch what Bantam you go for 95% have a smaller capacity than the lathes mentioned, its only the late Mk2 that has 6.5" ctr height, rest are 5.5" and only a few of those have a gap bed so you may find them wanting on capacity.

 

 

 

J

 

Edited By JasonB on 20/04/2015 19:16:06

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Martin Lowe on 20/04/2015 10:35:26:

I'm in the process of looking for a new lathe. At present I have a Myford ML7 and need a larger lathe, about 12" x 36" size. The models I am considering are the Chester Crusader, Warco GH1236 and the Excel D320 x 920. I would appreciate any comments about these lathes. I live in the north west, so Chester is quite close.

Thanks

Martin

Basically all three are the same lathe with the odd variation, You will find they are all metric lathes but with a DRO that is taken care off. All can screw cut metric and imperial but check what threads are offered, not all models are equal.

Although I usually don't recommend it this is a comparison / purchase where you have to look what you get in the way of equipment for the money.

Chester do a Crusader De-Luxe which has DRO and all chucks and steadies as standard at far less cost that adding them on afterwards.

Plenty of spares available if needed later, all machines wear and at far less cost than say a Chipmaster which has been mentioned and remember one of those will come pre worn

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

I've just going through something similar at the moment, but the opposite direction, my old L5 has worn out and I've decided to buy a new slightly smaller lathe because the second hand lathes I've looked at so far have made me want to cry, I even looked at one where the owner had welded a new 4 jaw chuck on to the 3 jaw face plate!

Anyway after looking at the various suppliers I've gone with Warco, my lathe left today so hopefully, in a few days, I'll be in a position to tell you what a Chinese lathe is like compared with an old worn out British lathe. Warco have been very good to deal with so far and even rang me today to say the lathe had left.

Steve

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

It is true, John has a Crusader lathe and I really like it, he went for DRO's on all axis which catches me out once in a while but I used the lathe much of yesterday and I wasn't exhausted from it.

Early this year I decided to get something bigger and I went with Chester. My Mill is from them and my previous lathe was, I have always enjoyed good service from them. My new lathe is slightly longer in the bed than most but I have a requirement for a big between centres length and not so much swing. The Crusader has a terrific swing and plenty of room over the cross slide. I will put some pics up tomorrow. I am just too beat tonight.

One thing I will be doing though is fabricating some sort of ON/OFF lever for it, I just can't be having little push buttons. I will need to consult with Les about this.

graham.

(Sorry, just re-read that  the lever would be for my lathe – not the Crusader. It has great start/stop features)

Edited By Oompa Lumpa on 20/04/2015 22:03:58

[paul 1950Participant @paul1950]

I bought a new warco lathe a few years ago it was that bad I scraped it, I did list it on eBay but I took it off again there was no way i could sell anything that bad to someone. got a boxford now and love it.

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

I have a theory about Myford lathes and their second hand prices:

I blame the widows for trying to exact recompense for all those hours the husband spent in the shed wasting time when he could have taken her shopping for shoes or curtains.

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

I also have a theory about Myford prices…

They appear to be being treated like classic cars and a market has/is developing.

This is particularly evident in the prices for accessories, I recently watched a headstock crank handle, reportedly Myford original, make £96 – that is not a typo. Disappointed, I made a simple expanding adapter for the crank-handle used on the mill. It also doubles as a mount for a change-wheel for simple dividing.

I think I mentioned elsewhere that I would probably buy a Boxford or similar sized CE machine if I was starting again. The issue (for me) with modern variable speed machines is potentially expensive repairs to motors and controller boards. The longevity of single phase induction motors is well proven.

Phil

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by CotswoldsPhil on 21/04/2015 10:17:54:

I think I mentioned elsewhere that I would probably buy a Boxford or similar sized CE machine if I was starting again. The issue (for me) with modern variable speed machines is potentially expensive repairs to motors and controller boards. The longevity of single phase induction motors is well proven.

Phil

Phil

I think the longevity of three phase induction motors in conjunction with a VFD is well proven too!

Plus you get lots of other benefits

Ian P

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Here you go – John's Crusader in action. This is a 5" X 10" Billet of aluminium. I can easily achieve half thou accuracy with this machine. I can get the same with my Chester lathe though I have to pay attention as I do not have DRO's fitted.

It is now all set up for boring and this will be done soon. Another three sacks of swarf I would imagine:

John despairs at my "planning". I make it up as I go along. John has a meticulous work schedule all planned out. Well, we can't all be the same

When I was looking to buy a bigger machine to have at home and I started to look around, every Boxford or Colchester lathe I was introduced to had "only ever been used once at a girls college". The truth was sadly different and most of them the beds were shot. JohnF had warned me about this and he had spent a great deal of time searching for a longbed machine. As he said, spindle bearings, gibstrips – all can be replaced, but worn beds are a different matter. I bought a new machine with a warranty and more or less straight off the truck it cuts beautifully.

The only downside for me was a good bit of Myford size tooling. I was 'talking' with Jason about this only recently as it turns out he has the same issue. A good deal of tooling and consequently money invested in toolposts that would fit a Myford size machine perfectly but are a bit small for bigger machines. I have just modified things slightly and it is working for now, eventually I will go bigger though.

This is unlike a close friend of mine who has been doing the same job as I do for the last twenty five years and built his operation around a longbed Super Seven. He spent more converting to a big bore head last year than I spent buying and installing a whole new machine. I think Myfords are nice machines for what they are but at the end of the day, if you need capacity you have to look at something bigger. Nice for Model Making, but that's about it.

I bought my new machine knowing exactly the sort of work I do and what my requirements are, this works. When I need to machine an impossibly large piece of work I am in the fortunate position of having good friends who will let me use their kit. Invariably Chinese and invariably good and from different suppliers but by and large the same manufacturers. It is the supplier you need to look at and Chester have been very good for me.

graham.

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

Ian P posted…

I think the longevity of three phase induction motors in conjunction with a VFD is well proven too!

Plus you get lots of other benefits.

I'm sure you are correct, but until my motors (and spares) go phutt with magic smoke I can't comment. I will eventually go the 3 phase VFD route as the price of a suitable replacement single phase motor can be quite high.

My requirement is for small work so the S7 fits the bill quite well, and is not as intimidating as some larger machines can be for a self taught ME – but not if I had to pay current asking prices.

Phil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Martin,
Take a very close look at the threading charts.  I don't know about the 1236 but I was looking at the Grizzly G0750 which is a very similar style knob SCGB and found it needed umpteen gear changes for just about every imperial thread so even going from 18 to 20 tpi needed a fiddle around. Made the gearbox almost pointless. I think it might have been designed more for a metric leadscrew. Unfortuanately Warco don't put up an online manual or even a decent photo of the headstock so can't see if this is the same but definately any lathe which has these knobs needs checking to avoid masive frustration.

edit : The Crusader is knob too. Thought it wasn't. Can the users above advise on the thread selection? I hope these are rather better appointed than the above mentioned American one. Really need to see the manuals.

Have a look a their Craftsman which is the equivalent of the discontinued Warco BH600  and has a Norton or lever style SCGB with good range.  Atthough a belt drive so not as 'fancy' as a gearhead if you factor in the cost of a 3 phase + inverter you could still end up with a better package.

 

Edited By Bazyle on 21/04/2015 18:41:51

[Martin LoweParticipant @martinlowe20701]

Wow, such a lot of info to take in! I wasn't expecting so many answers, thanks to everyone who has responded. There's loads for me to absorb and think about. For the projects I'm thinking about, I need at least 1.5" spindle bore and 36" centers, that's why I'm looking at these lathes. I don't really know how to assess a used lathe, so that's why I thought a new one would be better for me (can't afford a new M300 either!). In the dim distant past (when at school) I did use a Kerry and have owned a Holbrook SC1 ( a large beast that started it's life at Cammel Lairds), an ex school Boxford (with change wheels and a bit chewed up) and now a Myford (it's been great up to now but a bit small). Now I'm retired, I want to start on some projects that have been in mind for a while. I'm not going to be using the lathe all day every day – too many other interests!!

I've been to look at the Chester lathes and was advised that the Crusader Deluxe would be a good choice, so now i'll have to make a decision.

I've also got a miller (an old Richmond series 01 with Halco head) which is a solid machine, so I just need to learn how to use them properly!

Thanks again to everyone who's provided information, I really appreciate it.

Martin

[Martin LoweParticipant @martinlowe20701]

It's been several months since I asked for advice on a lathe purchase. I decided on a Chester Crusader Deluxe after weighing up all the advice and it's being delivered on Wednesday (4 Nov). I've had to put an extension on my workshop which has taken a while and, as always, other things have got in the way. After I've got the lathe in place, the miller has to be moved and benching, cupboards and shelves made – should be a busy time!

So, hopefully, I will be up and running soon.

Thanks again to all who gave advice, it's really appreciated.

Martin

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