1-2K Which Mill?

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1-2K Which Mill?

This topic has 15 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 13 October 2018 at 12:21 by Men Ifr.

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12 October 2018 at 20:19 #13316
Men Ifr
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@menifr84251
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12 October 2018 at 20:19 #375678
Men Ifr
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@menifr84251
I currently have a SPG 9512 see https://www.spgtools.com/viewtooly.php?pid=22 I guess the equivelent would be like a Sieg X2 – but the Sieg would have a much stronger column base.

I have problems with deflection, and have to run the gibs so tight on the Z it's difficult to move up and down. The X and Y are OK – again I have to run them tight but a handle extension for more leverage on the X and everything seems to be working OK. For the Z I've blued the Z axis and the only contact is a thin strip at the front edge of the dovetail – almost as if the angle of the head is not the same at the column…

I don't have the time to resolve these issues and am willing to pay some more money for something more accurate.

My options would seem to be:

2nd hand industrial machine e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-VM-E-Vari-speed-Milling-Machine-/192637275093?hash=item2cda138bd5%3Ag%3AU3IAAOSwyUtbgWyK&nma=true&si=bibyqg%252Fie21M8ZFlwacY7txlOmk%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 but would need to be single phase and it's probably too big for what i need in reality, I'm usually working on small parts.

£900 – £1250 for a Sieg X2.7 the column/bed probably isn't massively stronger than my current mill but would the manufacturing quality – gib strip contact be a lot better than my (exceptionally poor) SPG mill? This has tapered gibs, which I like the look of a lot but I'm not sure how they work i.e. they don't seem to pull a tapered strip up/down which I would expect… I could quite happily gamble on a X2.7 and not be too disappointed if it's not as good as I need.

£1500 for a sieg X3 stronger column but this seems to be the older design with tilting head (weak?) and allen grub screws for gigs (which I don't like – it's a poor engineering solution though maybe in reality they work as well as tapered gibs (though I doubt it)

£2250 for the New/fancy Sieg X3 – no tilting head tapered gibs, x and z powerfeed though sounds like the z powerfeed control is not well controlled enough for depth control while machining so would need to use the quill..

All thoughts are appreciated, really I just want a machine that is true in x,y,z and I do not have to spend a lot of time setting up or continuously fettling. The reason for an upgrade would be spending less time sorting a machine out and also less time with wasted parts due to inaccuracy..
12 October 2018 at 20:26 #375680
Men Ifr
Participant
@menifr84251
Or this turret miling machine from Warco

https://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/303311-vmc-vario-milling-machine.html

It s much more substantial at 415 kg compared to the similarly priced Sieg X3.5 – any idea how the quality of this machine would compare to the Sieg? (both made in China?) and I'd have to work out if/how it would fit in the garage as I think it's a much bigger machine.
12 October 2018 at 20:33 #375681
Trevor Drabble 1
Participant
@trevordrabble1
Quillstar ( Nottingham) Boxford VM30 £1250 ; Emco FB2 £1750 ; Emco Mentor £1450 . Trevor.
12 October 2018 at 20:43 #375683
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Posted by Trevor Drabble on 12/10/2018 20:33:08:

Quillstar ( Nottingham) Boxford VM30 £1250 ; Emco FB2 £1750 ; Emco Mentor £1450 . Trevor.

All with screw gibs and swivel heads, which the OP would prefer to avoid…
12 October 2018 at 20:45 #375684
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Out of the machines you list the one that appeals the most to me is the latest Arc machine. I looked at the specification and description after getting Arc's last newsletter and can honestly say that it was the first time I thought I would go for a far eastern made machine (if I was looking for a new machine). It looks really well thought out and comes with all the features that one usually has to add later. Some details (like the tapping control buttons) would not be easy to add oneself as a modification to a plain mill, and having the magnetic scales integral with the machine is just plain common sense.

I consider the lack of tilting head is a good thing! On my Emco I have fitted extra clamping plates/brackets so it never goes out of vertical and I cope with angled work by tilting the job.

What sort of work you have in mind mind might influence you machine choice but everything else being equal the largest machine will give the most rigidity which is important even with small cutters and workpieces.

Ian P
12 October 2018 at 20:51 #375686
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
The X3 has never had a tilting head, I've had one for 111-12yrs and it does all I want, only adjust the screw gibs once every couple of years.

Assuming you mean the new SX3.5DZP then the Z axis just saves having to reach up to a handwheel to move the head too fast for boring under power. Also see the comments on theX power feed on ARC's site
12 October 2018 at 21:01 #375688
Ian Skeldon 2
Participant
@ianskeldon2
Posted by JasonB on 12/10/2018 20:51:20:

The X3 has never had a tilting head, I've had one for 111-12yrs and it does all I want, only adjust the screw gibs once every couple of years.

Hi Jason,

Arc do list the SX3 as having a tilting head.
12 October 2018 at 21:10 #375689
Ian Skeldon 2
Participant
@ianskeldon2
As it is the price range referred to by the OP I assumed that is the one he meant?
12 October 2018 at 21:31 #375692
Harry Wilkes
Participant
@harrywilkes58467
111-12yrs and here's me thinking Jason was not that old

H
13 October 2018 at 07:07 #375704
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Yes SX3 is a different machine to the X3. The X3 is older than the SX3 so I was trying to work out what machines you were on about as you mentioned old design. Both are still available.

The 3.5 is not a new replacement for the SX3 or X3 but a new machine placed between the SX3 and the larger SX4

Full line up plus the SX4 which they left off the right hand side

Gib strips on the 2.7 size machines are tapered and have screws at each end to push them to the desired fit. If going for this size machine then I would go for the SX rather than the X

Can I ask what sort of accuracy you want from the parts you are making and what sort of cuts ( cutter, DOC, material) you were using that gave problems with rigidity on the SPG?

Edited By JasonB on 13/10/2018 07:08:43

Edited By JasonB on 13/10/2018 07:36:10
13 October 2018 at 09:30 #375714
John Haine
Participant
@johnhaine32865
I hadn't picked up on the SX3.5. Looking at the picture of the X powerfeed, it looks very much like it may use a stepper motor – is this the case?
13 October 2018 at 10:09 #375721
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
24V gear head DC motor.
13 October 2018 at 10:39 #375727
colin vercoe
Participant
@colinvercoe57719
Second hand Tom Senior or Adcock Shipley for the best build quality
13 October 2018 at 12:01 #375734
Men Ifr
Participant
@menifr84251
There's a nice looking Tom Senior here

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tom-Senior-M1-Milling-Machine-Dividing-Head/223166572981?hash=item33f5c3a9b5:g:CcYAAOSwwB5brgx~:rk:1f:0

But 3 issues:: similar to all older but better built machines:

1 – 3 phase and I don't know how easy/expensive/effective it is to convert to single phase?

2 – How difficult is it to change gear – moving belts? I find the speed dial and gearbox on My Sieg X2 type machine very easy (obviously)

3 – How do I know if the machine is worn in it's (possibly) 60 year life?
13 October 2018 at 12:21 #375737
Men Ifr
Participant
@menifr84251
Or this:

http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/Syil-X4-plus-CNC-Milling-Machine-with-4th-axis-syilx4os.html

£3K – but it does not run – has 'issues' with electronics – sounds like some boards are damaged and it's not possible to get replacements however maybe £3K for a (possibly) sieg x4 based machine with CNC ready ball screws and motors (though some motors may be damaged..) would be well worth it?

When looking at a mil to buy I would like to convert to CNC 'at a later date' but if that could be done sooner that would be much better…

I'm quite tempted by this but need to establish what machine it was based on and what CNC parts work or are damaged…
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