Lathe HSS cutting tools

Lathe HSS cutting tools

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  • #319209
    Alfie Peacock
    Participant
      @alfiepeacock58331

      I have a few HSS lathe tools from 1/2 inch to 3/8ths unused with a 60 deg angle on both ends. As a cutting tool has a lot less of an angle why have the tools got this 60 deg angle on them. I would like to grind some tools up but this means grinding the angle off, this is a beginners question so any advice would be appreciated,

      #8886
      Alfie Peacock
      Participant
        @alfiepeacock58331
        #319210
        David Standing 1
        Participant
          @davidstanding1

          When you say a '60 deg angle', do you then mean they are thread cutting tools?

          #319211
          Simon Williams 3
          Participant
            @simonwilliams3

            Unused square HSS tools come with each end cut off at an angle, 60deg sounds about right. My understanding is that this is to facilitate sharpening the end before mounting it in a tool holder of the Jones and Shipman type, which holds the whole tool at an angle below the horizontal, automatically giving a top rake angle without grinding away the top surface of the tool blank.

            Other explanations may abound!

            Simon

            #319218
            SillyOldDuffer
            Moderator
              @sillyoldduffer

              I've wondered about this too. Here's an example of a new HSS tool blank:

              dsc04579.jpg

              On this one, the left hand angle is about 70° and the right about 73°. Whatever the purpose of the angle, accuracy seems not to matter.

              Dave

              #319220
              Thor 🇳🇴
              Participant
                @thor

                Dave, the toolbit in your photo looks pretty much the same as the ones I have.

                Thor

                #319223
                mark smith 20
                Participant
                  @marksmith20

                  Ive always wondering the same the angles vary ,heres some i have the ones on the left are cut at a 60-70 degree angle ,the one at the bottom straight across and the ones on the right are cut at an angle but in two directions.

                  p1340746.jpg

                  #319227
                  Clive Foster
                  Participant
                    @clivefoster55965

                    As Simon suggests the angled cut off is provided to reduce the amount of grinding needed to produce a typical tool.

                    Works for conventional lay flat and boring bar tool holders as well as the Armstrong, J&S et al "up kicked" variety. The proper clearance angle for the material being cut only needs to be applied to a narrow land below the cutting edge. Think typical insert tooling. Once you have clearance between tool and cut surface the HSS is in the wind and air cares not a jot about what the angle is. So long as there is sufficient support for the cutting edge and adequate metal to take the heat away detail shape beyond the active cutting part is unimportant.

                    Pretty much stuck with a full grind on the flat top as the swarf needs to flow over it. Pro users tended to grind a chipbreaker there anyway.

                    I have an orphan tangential type cutting tool holder which takes truncated triangle shaped HSS exploiting the same ideas to minimise waste.

                    Got a cheap chainsaw sharpener on the shelf waiting to be converted into an HSS bit end chopper off. Plan is to fit a 1 mm cutting disk and arrange a suitable adjustable bit holder to put a similar over clearance angle on well used bits so only a narrow land has to be ground or touched up when re-sharpening. As one side of my DE grinder carries a wire brush cutting thus saves swopping between coarse and fine wheels or wasting the fine one on bulk grinding. Doing it by hand is less than accurate.

                    Clive.

                    #319228
                    Bazyle
                    Participant
                      @bazyle

                      At one time HSS was very expensive. Since tools are always going to be ground off at least a bit at an angle someone, perhaps during WW2, realised it made sense to cut them at an angle to start with. The potential saving in material and time to grind from new would be worthwhile.

                      #319238
                      Clive Hartland
                      Participant
                        @clivehartland94829

                        Grind the tool for a purpose, dont worry about what is there now. Grind the tool to the angles YOU want for standard turning or a rounded point. Cut back as far as necessary for internal cutting. You will end up with a selection of tooling for most purposes.

                        Clive

                        #319245
                        Clive Foster
                        Participant
                          @clivefoster55965

                          Most beginners over grind tools. Don't take any more off than you need to.

                          Don't get hung up on exact angles.  Sharp matters more.  For our rates of metal removal something close will do just fine.  Especially if its sharp and nicely polished.  To a first approximation the turned surface replicates the cutting edge so a smooth polished edge gives a better finish than rough one.

                          I've seen a table and diagrams somewhere linking the clearance angle immediately below the cutting edge to the height of the tool when presented straight on to a grinding wheel of a given diameter. Obviously the basic shape of the ground surface is an arc of a circle but this is clear of the turned part surface so doesn't matter.

                          From a beginners perspective its obviously much easier to simply put a piece of packing on the grinding rest to get the correct angle than it is to sort out an accurate, solid, tilting type rest. Easier to produce a radius on the point of the tool too. Helps with touching up as you aren't reliant on setting up the exact angles on a tilting device. Many amateur ground tools show the remains of multiple nearly the same angles where rest set-up has been slightly different for each grind.

                          Hopefully someone can find the reference. Its not a universal panacea but it does get you started with reliable, repeatable results.

                          Clive.

                          Edited By Clive Foster on 29/09/2017 16:00:52

                          Edited By Clive Foster on 29/09/2017 16:02:07

                          Edited By Clive Foster on 29/09/2017 16:02:28

                          #319246
                          Simon Williams 3
                          Participant
                            @simonwilliams3

                            There is an analysis of presenting the work to the grinding wheel above centre height to achieve a predictable clearance angle in the book of the Quorn. IIRR it crops up in the setting instructions for grinding reamer flutes, also for putting clearance on the perphery of a side and face cutter.

                            #319256
                            not done it yet
                            Participant
                              @notdoneityet

                              Yep, Bazyle got it. Economy of material. Simple asvthat. If it was square at the ends, more material would be needed. Saves time too – not having to always grind a square end away!

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