Once you have been advised on the sizes of your cutters, cncpoorboy in Manchester is one place to consider. Good quality professional cutters at good prices. Presumably obtained through trade sales and auctions.

Hi dave. I would look at ER32 as a good tool holder for the type of work you are doing as advised previously.
I have such a morse 2 chuck for my Raglan mill. But also consider a fly cutter on a morse 2 or a face mill to work plane surfaces. Not to mention a slitting saw arbour if you need to slot any work. Regards Mick

In a small mill like that, cutting steel, realistically, it will be best to use cutters 8mm and smaller. I would look at a collet system like an ER16 up to 10.3mm collet, with the smaller compact castle nut series. The shorter the holder the more ridgid it will be and also allow  slightly more room between the table and cutter.  Small cutters ie 6 to 8 mm will chatter less and can run at higher rpm and in turn you can remove more material quicker.

Cutters 8 mm and smaller are also significantly cheaper than the 10mm and up cutters. I would recommend that what ever collet system you decide to buy, get the highest precision collets that they make, like in the Regofix series, I would buy their high precision ones RegoFix is the UP range. They run more concentric that the regular ones, you get longer cutter life, (very measurable) and improved surface finish for not much more initial out lay. In the Regofix series of collets, they go to larger diameters than the generic suppliers of t he ER collet series. For MT2, you can also get MT2 collets in the standard cutter sizes. The industry standard is 3mm shank for very small, also 4mm shank for the very small, then, 5mm,6mm,8mm, Some 7mm cutters are on a 7 shank, but most are on an 8mm shank. Some 5mm cutters are also on a 6mm shank. This is all for carbide cutters.

Out here in NZ, you can get carbide cutters at such reasonable prices,and very good quality for less than averge cost of HSS cutters. I have not brought any HSS milling cutters in the last 6 years at all. My last HSS cutter was a woodruff T slot cutter and a small dovetail cutter. Lots of choices.

There is advantaged to the ER system, and I would recommend buying the smallest ER system that you need rather than the bigger one that you will most likely not use. The smaller systems have shorter collets, which is really good for the smaller endmills.

Neil

Edited By Neil Lickfold on 13/01/2017 20:11:56

I use 2MT collets to hold milling cutters in my FB2 clone to minimise the tool projection. Most milling cutters have "standard" shank diameters – 3,6,8,10,12 will cover most eventualities. Mine came from ArcEuroTool **LINK** at a Harrogate show (see earlier post about Arc having a 10% discount offer on at the moment) & have worked well.

Using an ER collet chuck will extend the cutter a long way from the spindle nose (increased possibility of chatter + wear on bearings + eats into available headroom) & ER collets offer a shorter gripping length compared to a Morse taper collet. The FB2 (& clones) have a rather strange spindle bearing arrangement that uses a "sized" needle roller bearing running directly on the hardened spindle & quill directly – there is no adjustment for wear, so it seems preferable to me to reduce the loading on this bearing as much as possible to maximise spindle life.

IIRC Graham Meek has described a reworking of his FB2 spindle to take taper roller bearings, but I don't know where Graham has details of this now since he had all his content on the ME forums removed.

Nigel B

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Special circumstances … best not open old wounds.

MichaelG.

There was an ER32 holder on my mill when I bought it used, but no collets, so initialy purchased the sizes of collet to fit standard end mill sizes. I have since got an ER32 collet chuck for my lathe built up a full set of collets from 2mm up to 20mm, they are a God send for machining bar material.

The first end mills were cheap Chinese ones from Ebay, they didn't last very well but they got me started. A pack of ten 4mm for a few quid, you can't go wrong. Now I usually buy more expensive coated end mills, they have a much longer life.

Ah, a sort of schism took place, I wont flare it up.

Back to the collet talk, the only downside with drawbar MT collets is that this is only an MT2 machine, I don't say that to be denigrating but it means it's limited by the maximum opening of the spindle, so if you want to use your 20mm cutter for roughing…it wont fit. To date I've used the unbranded ER collets and never had any problems pertaining to run-out. Just remember to "pop" them in, otherwise you will get a lot of run-out and possibly some duffed collets.

My mill has a lot of head height and I already had a replete collection of ER40 collets for the lathe, so took a relatively easy step towards buying an MT2 ER40 chuck for my mill. Having said that, I prefer to use the ER20 chuck for small work and it does give you back virtually all your head room.

However, on the positive side of things, if you've got a fairly accurate lathe you can make your own MT collets.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 13/01/2017 22:11:42

Dave, I have had my FB2 for some 30 years and use it several time a week, I would use ER25 collets as supplied originally with the machines. Below is a link to one that looks like the original, it may b e a clone ? It may be good or not so good you will have to decide. I think the originals are still available from the UK Emco distributor.

There are plenty of alternatives from UK suppliers but one thing to be careful of is don't use too long a wrench when tightening cutters, it is possible to strip the tufnel gear thats in the gearbox. I have never had a problem but there is a design for a spindle lock to avoid this by Graham Meek. There are also spanner flats on the spindle but the spanner provided is next to useless so make your own.

I wonder if you have the origin draw bar and spindle cap for automatic ejection of the taper ? Do not be tempted to use a hammer to release the taper.

The machine will serve you well and I'm sure exceed your expectations — but then I may be a little biased !

Cheers John

**LINK**

I agree also that MT2 collets are best to meet your needs. They are relatively cheap, available in all the sizes needed for cutters up to 13 mm shank, minimise overhang so increase rigidity, and give the maximum available clearance under the spindle for taller workpieces/vices etc. If you had the option IMHO the best choice is R8, but your spindle is MT2 so you don't!

I use ER16 collets on my little CNC mill as that's what it came with, but the chuck eats up at least 60mm under the spindle and there isn't much daylight to start with. With that and the fact that I'm limted to 10mm cutters I'm trying to work out the best way of holding larger cutters with minimum projection.

The downside of MT2 is the potential drawbar size, highlighted above; and that they can get stuck in the taper. For the first, if your spindle is limited to 8mm dia. drawbar, you could fit each collet with a home-made adapter M8 to 3/8 whit or M10 (whichever the collet has), loctited in position. For the second, minimise the chance of sticking by keeping taper socket and collet very clean, lightly oil before inserting, don't over-tighten, and maybe fitting a self-release on the top of the drawbar.

Though 13mm cutter shank is a slight limitation, if you really want to use a larger size use an MT2 shank inserted-bit cutter (or make one).

if you want to use your 20mm cutter

A bit brutal in a small machine with all of 1/4 Hp (if single phase – 1/3 Hp 3 phase) to drive it. That said, Emco did list a shell end mill arbor and a 40 dia. HSS shell end mill as accessories – but this sits a lot closer to the spindle nose than a collet chuck. The collet chuck Emco offered was ESX25, with max. collet capacity of 14mm.

I made an arbor to carry a 50 dia. 3 insert face mill. My S7 came with the taper turning attachment & it is set to turn 2MT tapers. It was straight forward to make the arbor so that the flange was about 0.002" clear of the spindle nose when inserted by hand – when nipped with the drawbar, the flange contacts the spindle nose for increased stiffness. I can't say I am too happy using it, though, and tend to use a fly cutter & light cuts to face larger areas.

As I was in the garage today, I had the drawbar out of my FB2 clone. I made this, as the machine came without – it is approx. 11.5mm diameter, with a 3/8 BSW thread to suit the 2MT collets. It is a loose fit in the spindle, which I didn't measure but would expect to be around 12mm through. At a guess the 8mm drawbar would have applied to the earlier, 4 speed "Mentor" version.

There are also spanner flats on the spindle but the spanner provided is next to useless so make your own.

Yes, the OE pressed steel item is very short – my machine is 32mm AF, a standard metric spanner size. I would not contemplate not using a spanner on the spindle nose when tightening or loosening a tool. I doubt very much that the fibre gear is still available – the owner of my first machine of this type bought replacements from Ajax Machine Tools when they were in Stockport & 20 years ago they were £75 a pop. He reckoned these were cheaper than Emco.

I have an original Emco FB2 brochure & a photocopied FB2 clone manual – I'ii try & get these scanned & pop them in an album as .jpegs when I have a spare half hour.

Nigel B

Thanks for that Neil.

Ian S C