making a 3″ saw-blade clamping washer with a tapered thickness

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making a 3″ saw-blade clamping washer with a tapered thickness

Home Forums Workshop Tools and Tooling making a 3″ saw-blade clamping washer with a tapered thickness

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  • #798549
    milesincam
    Participant
      @milesincam

      I have offered to repair for a friend a large saw-blade clamping washer that was “machined” for him by a chap using an angle grinder, when he was asked to re-face the critical arbour-bearing surface which had become galled and uneven.  As this is the face which bears on the spindle to align the blade, which is 16″ diameter, it needs to be spot on or the wobble is terrifying. The angle grinder work was NOT spot on…

      I’m using my Myford ML7 for this, so very standard.

      The washer is one of a pair. They are steel, 75mm diameter, about 6-8mm thick in the centre with a 25mm diameter flat portion on one side and then that outer face tapers down a couple of mm to the periphery.  The blade side is relieved in the centre with the blade-contact surface being only 6mm wide ring at the outer diameter.

      I can easily put the washer in a 3-jaw chuck with the blade-contact surface as my reference on the chuck jaws.   Cutting the central bearing surface – easy, no issue at all. But then I realised that the angle-grinder enthusiast had produced a wildly uneven thickness over the whole diameter, so the washer is now really out of balance and will contribute to additional vibration – plus I can’t hand back this vile travesty as “my work” without fixing this additional issue.

      The problem is – how to cut this perhaps 3-degree taper from centre to edge, when my topslide can’t be set anywhere near that angle?   I confess I’m a little baffled that Myford’s design seems so limited in in the allowable angles, is there some reason that I don’t understand?  I’ve never needed to do this angle of cut before.   Freehanding it in lots of little steps and then smoothing them off with a file would be the last resort…

      Any clever members who can explain how it could/should be done on this lathe?   I can pack the part out so the working surface is proud of the chuck jaws, but I just can’t see how to progress a tool at that shallow angle using any combination of available motions.

      cheers, and thanks in advance from the chap with the saw. Buying replacement washers is not easy as the spindle size is a peculiar one and they would have to be reamed out to fit. I think the saw was built ~50 years ago and is a terrifying example of DIY power tooling – a chunky and surprisingly accurate wooden frame carrying the arbour, a brutal 5HP+ 3-phase motor with DOL starting, and absolutely no guarding at all.  I was there when the 16″ blade started thrashing around in a cut and it was truly scary.  My “big” Wadkin is a kitten by comparison…

      Miles (Cambridge)

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      #798557
      Julie Ann
      Participant
        @julieann

        As I understand it that’s a fundamental limitation of the Myford. Just checked on my lathe (Harrison M300) and no problem setting the top slide to 3°. There are several options:

        • Grind a tool to have flat face at about 3° and take a series of steps across the face of the washer. Should be straightforward to match the depth of successive cuts so little, or no, cleaning up needed.
        • Borrow a bigger lathe
        • Buy a different lathe (tongue in cheek!)

        Julie

        #798561
        John Haine
        Participant
          @johnhaine32865

          I guess you have an ML7?  That does I think have a limited range of angles for the topslide.  The S7 has a different clamping arrangement with an unlimited range of angles.

          I can’t see why the taper has any function, I think I would just make a new washer with a uniform thickness  from a short bit of 3 inch bar.  As the blade is 16″ dia no one will see the washer anyway (assuming that there’s a saw table).

          #798562
          noel shelley
          Participant
            @noelshelley55608

            The important surfaces are the bore and the ridge face round the edge, these should be turned in one setting to maintain concentricity Etc. The angle face is largely cosmetic ? Can you not reverse the work in the chuck, space out from the jaws and set over the top slide ? you should have enough travel to get 3″od. I have an S7. Noel.

            #798567
            DC31k
            Participant
              @dc31k

              It might be too much work for a one off, but attach a 3 degree tapered wedge to the cross slide and a bearing stop fixed to the bed. Then as you traverse the cross slide, the carriage will move longitudinally. Either use hand pressure on the carriage wheel or a string and weight to keep follower and template in contact.

              It is no different to a longitudinal template-follower process, just at 90 degrees to the normal direction.

              Turn the screen sideways and read this post:

              Lathe copy attachments

              #798572
              JasonB
              Moderator
                @jasonb

                Does it really need to be tapered, can’t you just turn a few even steps across the surface.

                If really fussed do that then use a hand graver to blend them into a taper.

                #798579
                Julie Ann
                Participant
                  @julieann
                  On DC31k Said:

                  ….no different to a longitudinal template-follower process, just at 90 degrees to the normal direction.

                  Like this:

                  2018_08070012

                  Note the home made bracket and template on the saddle.

                  Julie

                  #798590
                  Nigel Graham 2
                  Participant
                    @nigelgraham2

                    Firstly, is that taper important to the function? If not then can it be omitted?

                    I’d be inclined to establish if the saw needs anything more complicated than a larger version to what is on an angle-grinder.

                    On these, the outer face of the washer runs in fresh air so is flat, with just a chamfered rim; the inner (clamping) surface has a shallow recess for much of the diameter so grips on a narrow annulus.

                    Parting-off that diameter on a Myford might be a bit brave. I have done it but not would claim the cut surface was flat.

                    Assuming the above conditions I’d be inclined to saw a thin billet from stock bar, or cut a disc from plate using a cylindrical hole-saw. Centralise the blank in a four-jaw chuck, drill and bore the spindle hole, bore the recess. Skim the face of the annulus to ensure it is perpendicular to the bore.

                    Make a simple mandrel, and leaving that in the chuck, mount the disc on it to finish-turn the circumference and chamfer the rim.

                    #798595
                    milesincam
                    Participant
                      @milesincam

                      Thanks to everyone for such useful and thoughtful suggestions.  I had not ever considered the carriage-follower type of approach, that’s a useful one to remember.   The 3deg tool is also very doable and as it is not at all a critical surface (other than looking respectable) it would probably work.

                      I have now discovered that the original washer has some sort of laminated structure (!) and it’s coming apart, so Nigel’s recipes for making a new one might well be the way ahead.  I can get a slice of bar from Mackay’s in town, which would at least be a good start.

                      I recognise that Harrison topslide, same as the one I used to like at work. Not sure what the Colchester item is on the right, though…  I think the Myford design is just because there is so little height available, they gave up on allowing complete rotation.  It’s a shame – the lathe has a lot of sentimental value but it is a bit limited.  I suppose that is where the fun comes in getting around those obstacles 🙂

                       

                      cheers all,

                      Miles

                      #798618
                      Julie Ann
                      Participant
                        @julieann
                        On milesincam Said:

                        I can get a slice of bar from Mackay’s in town, which would at least be a good start.

                        When I first started with my current workshop I bought some bright steel from Mackay. They didn’t know the difference between bright and black steel, which wasn’t a good start. The bright steel was the first steel I turned on my new (to me) lathe. No matter what I tried I couldn’t get a good finish, which was really depressing. A little later, when visiting a local machine shop to discuss an aluminium box I’d designed and wanted CNC milled I mentioned my problem. Their answer was “we never buy steel from M****, it’s c**p”.

                        Julie

                        #798619
                        DC31k
                        Participant
                          @dc31k
                          On milesincam Said:

                          Not sure what the Colchester item is on the right, though…

                          It is a Hepworth hydraulic copier, also called a hydraulic tracer. Tru-trace was a US manufacturer of similar.

                          You may recognise it from here:

                          Hepworth Lathe copying attachment

                          On YT, Keith Fenner did a good video of his:

                          Can also be seen in action in the Colchester Lathes video (the background music should have been ‘ring my bell’ by Anita Ward):

                          #798635
                          DC31k
                          Participant
                            @dc31k

                            As with most Myford issues, someone has been there in the past and thought of a solution.

                            Please see:

                            ML7 Topslide limitations

                            and the whole of the discussion in that topic in general.

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