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Another new mill

This topic has 40 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 12 March 2019 at 16:51 by geoff walker 1.

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1 November 2018 at 14:29 #19124
Martin Shaw 1
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@martinshaw1
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1 November 2018 at 14:29 #378683
Martin Shaw 1
Participant
@martinshaw1
Regular readers will know of Ron and his new to him SX2P, which he bought from me. I am pleased to see he's getting on with it ok, it's a massive learning game starting fron scratch.

A beneficial change in my circumstances has enabled me to contemplate an SX2.7, the machine I would have bought 18 months ago if finance had allowed, and practically the biggest I can get into my workshop. I made a visit to Arc yesterday to discuss the whole matter and look at the machine. Ketan very generously spent a considerable time showing me around and explaining something of the philosophy behind his approach to business, as well as discussing specific matters and Ian in his charming avuncular way translated the conversation into an order and relieved me of a large sum. It's all arriving next week.

The subject of DROs came up, and Arc to their credit suggested magnetic scales from Machine DRO would be a better bet than their own optical scales, do others agree? Additionally the SX2.7 comes with a quill depth readout so choices, fit a 2 way display and XY scales, fit a 3 way display but still only fit XY scales pending usage determining the need for a Z scale, or, go the whole hog at the start. Any views bearing in mind that there isn't a vast sum between the options.

You will gather from the above I have a great regard for Arc, they are easy to do business with, normal diclaimer applies.

Regards

Martin
2 November 2018 at 09:05 #378757
Mark Elen 1
Participant
@markelen1
Hi Martin,

I bought the SX3 from ARC about a year ago now. I had a similar experience with Ketan and Ian, both great guys. I also purchased their 3 axis DRO with scales at the same time.

Very soon afterwards, I had the X and Y scales fitted and working, but I still haven't got around to fitting the Z. I tend to use the inbuilt quill DRO for Z work, at some point I'm going to need the Z scale fitting, its just I haven't had the need for it yet.

If I were to undertake the same thing now, I would probably go for the miniature magnetic scales and couple them with a LED display. (the scales purely for the reduced size, the display is just bling)

In the photo below, you can see the size of the cover I had to make to protect the glass scales on the back of the table. There is plenty of room for the glass scales, on all three axis, but I feel the smaller scales would 'look better'. (I shamlessly copied the mounting bracketry that was on the mill in ARCs showroom)

I'm still really just a beginner, so bear that in mind reading the above.

Cheers

Mark.
2 November 2018 at 09:56 #378761
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
It is often a bit of a quandary as to which side to fit the long travel reader. Behind, and one may lose some cross travel (it looks like Mark’s vise is his limiting factor, when it is in use), or if at the front one loses the use of stops or is a little more at risk from heavy workpieces.

I prefer the front side for both my mills as the cross travel often seems to be the bigger problem when machining. Possibly an exaggerated problem for me, as both mill tables have only two T-slots.

I would go for all three axes. My Centec has four and I use them all.

Edited By not done it yet on 02/11/2018 09:58:12
2 November 2018 at 10:16 #378770
Brian Wood
Participant
@brianwood45127
Hello Martin,

When I was faced with the question on how I wanted to set up DRO scales on my Dore-Westbury mill I chose an X Y display with the inclusion of a Pitch Circle Diameter [PCD] function instead of a 3rd axis measuring the quill movement.

As advised, that was a good choice and has proved to be most useful. A cheap caliper type display giving the vertical scale was added very soon after and is perfectly adequate

My experience for what it is worth

Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 02/11/2018 10:18:06
2 November 2018 at 10:59 #378777
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
I bough X&Y scales with a 3 way display when I did my X3 and added the Z scale about 6 months later thoght the X3 doe snot have the fitted quill scale.

There is masses of space at the back of the table on the SX2.7 as it goes back well beyond the spindle which is handy for milling long edges that can overhang the table.
2 November 2018 at 11:19 #378783
ChrisH
Participant
@chrish
Martin,

optical or magnetic scales? Personal choice I'd say. I bought Arc's cheap and cheerful 'entry level' (how I hate that term) DRO and scales (like grown up digital caliper type scales) and I am now regretting not saving up a lot more dosh and getting a better DRO kit – they are quite limited in what they'll do and don't always operate very smoothly I've found.

I was thinking optical but now, as Arc has suggested, going for either Machine-Dro Dro kit with magnetic scales or the very similar EMS Dro kit with magnetic scales, possible the latter as they claim to to have the smallest head scales in the UK and I got a good feeling when discussing this with them recently. I'm looking at a 3 axis kit for my mill, just the odd £500+ spend to try and justify and get past the Financial Director to surmount now! I'm not holding my breath!!

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 02/11/2018 16:41:38
2 November 2018 at 12:32 #378790
peak4
Participant
@peak4
Posted by not done it yet on 02/11/2018 09:56:00:

It is often a bit of a quandary as to which side to fit the long travel reader. Behind, and one may lose some cross travel (it looks like Mark’s vise is his limiting factor, when it is in use), or if at the front one loses the use of stops or is a little more at risk from heavy workpieces.

I prefer the front side for both my mills as the cross travel often seems to be the bigger problem when machining. Possibly an exaggerated problem for me, as both mill tables have only two T-slots.

I would go for all three axes. My Centec has four and I use them all.

Edited By not done it yet on 02/11/2018 09:58:12

Any chance of a quick photo of how you fitted your DRO to the Centec please.

When I bought my Warco 720 (Myford Super 7 copy) it came with an unfitted, still boxed kit, obviously 2 axis only.

I've still not got round to fitting it to a lathe yet, but thought it would probably be of more use on my Centec, also with the swivelling head.

I've got an, as new, but used Warco 1330 arriving Monday, so was pondering on getting a bolt on DRO kit for that from Warco and having one on that and the other on a mill; I also have a Dore Westbury if anyone has photos of a DRO on one of those.

I appreciate that a 3 axis would be better on a mill, but I've got what I've got, though a possibility would be to get a 3 axis Warco head with 2 scales for the 1330 and a spare for the Centec Z axis, and use that head on the mill, and my existing readout on the lathe, if the scales I already have are compatible.

Bill
2 November 2018 at 12:37 #378791
Martin Shaw 1
Participant
@martinshaw1
Thanks for all your thoughts, you have tended to confirm my thinking. As it is I spoke to M DRO this morning and we have agreed that their 3 axis dro kit is the most cost effective, even if I don't initially fit the Z axis, so I ordered it. Delivered for a tad under £500 I think it will suit well. Boss is currently away so no problem in that direction.

Regards

Martin
2 November 2018 at 13:47 #378803
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Peak4,

The complete set up was on the mill before I got it. Alan had done a good job.

It was simply a matter of replacing the kit after I installed the mill, as I had need to dismantle quite a bit – well, nearly all of it! – to make parts handleable by one person. I accepted the already drilled and tapped holes but I did (momentarily) consider if I should change it around.

My preference is arrived at because I often find I need to drive the table as close to the column as possible to get the maximum coss travel possible. As an aside, the long travel would have been just about sufficient for all my needs, except for the ~40mm lost travel due to the power feed. The fourth digi readout (on the quill) is quite useful at times.

Send me a PM if you need any more info. Have to break and reseal the covers to get any sensible pics, I think.
2 November 2018 at 14:30 #378809
geoff walker 1
Participant
@geoffwalker1
You will gather from the above I have a great regard for Arc, they are easy to do business with, normal disclaimer applies.

Hi Martin, couldn't agree more, every purchase of mine from ARC has been spot on in all respects.

I would imagine my purchase today, a Seig sx2p mill, will also meet those same standards.

Well I just had to have one!!!! My vertical slide days are over, at last, yipeeeee!!!!!!

Geoff
2 November 2018 at 14:59 #378812
Ian Hewson
Participant
@ianhewson99641
Hi Peak4

Fitted the magnetic scale from M-DRO, bought last year at discount price during the Midlands show when Warco could not be bothered as they chatted to old friends.

Works very well, mounted on a peice of gauge plate at the rear, plenty of scale track to cut to size.
2 November 2018 at 15:32 #378817
peak4
Participant
@peak4
Many thanks to Ian and NDIY, I'll dig out the box of bits and have a ponder.

Bill
2 November 2018 at 16:01 #378821
Ron Laden
Participant
@ronladen17547
Posted by geoff walker 1 on 02/11/2018 14:30:54:

You will gather from the above I have a great regard for Arc, they are easy to do business with, normal disclaimer applies.

Hi Martin, couldn't agree more, every purchase of mine from ARC has been spot on in all respects.

I would imagine my purchase today, a Seig sx2p mill, will also meet those same standards.

Well I just had to have one!!!! My vertical slide days are over, at last, yipeeeee!!!!!!

Geoff

I dont think you will be disappointed Geoff, as you have maybe seen from the start of this thread I have Martins ex SX2P, it is only 18 months old and like new. I am a beginner but already I can see it opening up all new horizons when it comes to model engineering. Enjoy it when it arrives.

Ron
2 November 2018 at 16:25 #378831
geoff walker 1
Participant
@geoffwalker1
I dont think you will be disappointed Geoff, as you have maybe seen from the start of this thread I have Martins ex SX2P, it is only 18 months old and like new. I am a beginner but already I can see it opening up all new horizons when it comes to model engineering. Enjoy it when it arrives.

I will Ron, I will.

I am planning to bench mount it but having seen the stand that is available from Arc I am having second thoughts. I'll see how it looks on the bench first.

Do you have the stand Ron? or anyone else?

Geoff
2 November 2018 at 16:30 #378832
Ron Laden
Participant
@ronladen17547
No I bench mounted mine Geoff, I have a bench which is up against the wall and is only 15 inch deep and it just seemed perfect for the SX2.

Ron
2 November 2018 at 17:02 #378834
Mark Elen 1
Participant
@markelen1
Hi Geoff,

I’ve got the stand for my SX3, it’s just the right height for me. Nice piece of kit. I’ve got the stand bolted to the concrete floor using rawlbolts.

Cheers

Mark

Edited By Mark Elen 1 on 02/11/2018 17:03:00
2 November 2018 at 21:19 #378886
Martin Shaw 1
Participant
@martinshaw1
Hi Geoff

The SX2P is a great wee machine, I expect you'll have fun with it, I certainly did when I had one. A couple of pointers if I may, keep the Z axis gibs snug which benefits changes in head height, if they are too loose the head can decide to take charge which is irritating. Secondly the X and Y locking screws are M4 cap head screws requiring an allen key to operate, they are fiddly and rapidly annoying beyond belief. Go to the Wixroyd website and they will sell you suitable Bristol lever screws, if I remember correctly a 20mm for the Y and a 25mm for the X, it makes operation much sweeter.

Martin
3 November 2018 at 08:32 #378927
geoff walker 1
Participant
@geoffwalker1
Hi Gents,

Thank you for your replies and also, Mark, Martin, the advice and information.

All duly noted.

Geoff
7 November 2018 at 21:48 #379666
Martin Shaw 1
Participant
@martinshaw1
Hi Chaps

The new machine arrived today, as well as some other goodies, what I don't fully understand despite my 65 years is the almost childlike joy of a new toy. It is as unpacked and still covered in Chinese gloop whilst I contemplate the method of installing it in the attic workshop, some dismantling will obviously be necessary, and probably some neighbours sons with the offer of free beer may oblige. It's also bl***y big, far more than it looked in Arc's showroom last week.

Regards

Martin
8 November 2018 at 13:33 #379756
geoff walker 1
Participant
@geoffwalker1
Hi Martin,

Your mill looks good, enjoy it!!

Mine arrived yesterday as well.

Fresh out of the crate and after a quick inspection all looks good. It's heavy, I like that.

I was aware the mill has some "issues" e.g. the sprung arm to steady the head and the amount of play in the fine feed.

The first one, I may at some time replace the arm with a gas strut and the second, well I would like to add DRO's to the mill so that should resolve that issue. Not just yet though let's do some modelling first!

Geoff
8 November 2018 at 13:53 #379759
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Martin, if you do decide to separate the column from the base then pull the dowel pins out first as they are drilled in at an angle. They are threaded so you can screw something into them to get hold of. You will have to retram afterwards.

Top pully cover is also easily removed and weighs a bit, could even take the motor out a sit is just 4 screws to loosen it complete with mounting plate and two connectors.
8 November 2018 at 14:39 #379768
Ron Laden
Participant
@ronladen17547
Posted by geoff walker 1 on 08/11/2018 13:33:18:

Hi Martin,

Your mill looks good, enjoy it!!

Mine arrived yesterday as well.

Fresh out of the crate and after a quick inspection all looks good. It's heavy, I like that.

I was aware the mill has some "issues" e.g. the sprung arm to steady the head and the amount of play in the fine feed.

The first one, I may at some time replace the arm with a gas strut and the second, well I would like to add DRO's to the mill so that should resolve that issue. Not just yet though let's do some modelling first!

Geoff

Hi Geoff, Replacing the torsion bar assy with a gas strut is a mod I have on my list, not just to improve the feel and balance of the head travel but as I found yesterday the slotted torsion bar can clash with the clamping rods and nuts. If you have a work piece set to the back of the table with clamping in the rear T slot and the head low down you can find the clamping running into the end of the torsion bar as the end of the bar pivots forward over the table when the head is low down. I got around it but its just worth noting.

Sorry Martin, this is your thread, I will shut up.

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 08/11/2018 14:43:37
9 November 2018 at 11:27 #379933
Martin Shaw 1
Participant
@martinshaw1
Ron

Whilst I started the thread it isn't "mine" as much as about new milling machines. In that respect both you and Geoff have relevant experience and sharing of thoughts and ideas is always beneficial. I'm still very much a beginner.

Geoff

I was going to do a gas strut mod but lethargy overcame and it's not now relevant. DRO is certainly worth doing, mine is on order for delivery at the end of the month. I was lucky enough to have a go on a Bridgeport so fitted, going back to leadscrews dials is not attractive.

Jason

Thanks for the tips, the only really difficult part pf the journey is the landing floor to attic, my pal and I managed the SX2P upwards complete, I split the column from the base downwards and had no difficulty. The SX2.7 is that much heavier however the head and column sans motor should be manageable. Ketan cautioned me about removing the head from the column so I'm keen to avoid that if at all possible.

Regards

Martin
15 November 2018 at 22:20 #380842
Martin Shaw 1
Participant
@martinshaw1
Since my post last week and Jason's helpful tips I have done some dismantling, principally to remove the top cover and motor, which does save a little bit of weight.The dowels in the column bottom seem strange, the hole in the column is vertical whilst that in the base is at an angle, so when you have extracted them, they are bent, go figure. Having said that they went back in with no problem. I also took off a lot of the bits to aid the cleaning process, I can understand why it's necessary but it really is an awful job. I managed to happily lift the head and column off the base and lay it down but I really wouldn't want to carry it any distance.

Sunday afternoon was spent very productively cleaning it all, and so yesterday my pal Derek came round. Now he is a typical west of Scotland character, shortish in stature, stockily built and with a major can do attitude, I invited him to test the weight, "nae problem pal, it'll be a scoosh", was his assured response. Actually getting it to the foot of the attic steps was easy enought, thereafter a bit of rope with me underneath it, guiding it to avoid damage and rest on alternate treads worked, it was somewhat nerve wracking, failure would cause major damage to me and the machine. Thankfully we got there, and the base was easy peasy. A picture of the machine on it's bench, which needs some additional bracing, I'm very pleased to have got here.

You'll notice I've gone the whole hog and fitted the Sieg X axis power feed, it works although probably not slowly enough for deep DOC in hard material, and to be fair Arc did point this out to me, but even so that's a whole less winding to do. I could I suppose have home brewed something for less money, but ultimately for me the hobby is not about machine tools, they just need to do a job, I can spend the time better.

A couple of thoughts, Sieg haven't improved their painting, the manual is riddled with errors, for example it tells me that the motor is retained by M6 by 14 screws, which in reality are M4 by 12. and that at first impressions it is a fine machine. I hope I have no cause to regret that.

Regards

Martin
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