Wilesco D16 on compressed air

[John KinmanParticipant @johnkinman36462]

[John KinmanParticipant @johnkinman36462]

I see on the internet one person is running a D18 on compressed air by modyifing the water filler intake on the boiler with a screw fit connection for compressed air hose .Is there an off the shelf connector available please .Or can someone make one for me for price please ? Or is there another way please ?……..

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Its usually a case of making something up to suit the thread and and the air hose like this

SAFETY NOTE You should also make sure your compressor has a regulator on it so you don't go pumping in air at a higher pressure than the working pressure of the boiler, even with safety valves they may not be able to get rid of the excess air as fast as the compressor is supplying it. Also have the boiler full of water, that way if things go wrong it won't be in such a big way.

J

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

IF you google " Wilesco compressor adaptor" there are quite a few available, I see Ministeam do several so maybe ask Forrest Classics if yhey do them as they are Ministream dealers in the UK.

 

Though looking at the price thats a nice littel earner for someone if they want to knock out some adaptors and sell them on e-bay. Now where did I put that bit of brass hex

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 29/03/2012 19:25:06

[John KinmanParticipant @johnkinman36462]

Posted by JasonB on 29/03/2012 19:03:27:

Its usually a case of making something up to suit the thread and and the air hose like this

SAFETY NOTE You should also make sure your compressor has a regulator on it so you don't go pumping in air at a higher pressure than the working pressure of the boiler, even with safety valves they may not be able to get rid of the excess air as fast as the compressor is supplying it. Also have the boiler full of water, that way if things go wrong it won't be in such a big way.

J

Yes thats exactly what Im looking for …….where did you get it ?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

There is a clue in my answer

……..usually a case of making something …….

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Jim,

Jason may disagree with me but personally I would not use a compressor to pressurise a small boiler especially a 'toy' version. As I said in another thread it is all too easy to over pressurise and possibly cause the boiler to rupture. It depends how well you can control the pressure from the source, how fast the boiler (more properly called the 'pressure vessel&#39 is pressurised and what volume the source is. The safety valve is designed to cope with a slow increase in pressure not a fast increase from a large volume source. Do you know the safe working pressure of the 'boiler'? Most compressed air users run the engine directly from a compressed air source.

It reminds me of the notice in service stations which say something like 'compressor only to be used for vehicle tyres'. I once saw a child of about thirteen try to inflate his high pressure (3 bar) cycle tyre and it exploded almost immediately due to the speed of air transfer. Fortunately he was not injured.

As I said elsewhere, why not steam it as intended?

Regards

Terry

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Gosh. I was surprised to see a D18 for sale on eBay for £295 when it is between £191 and £227 new on Amazon. I still wouldn't use compressed air on a boiler that size.

Regards

Terry

[John KinmanParticipant @johnkinman36462]

Thanks Guys for all information ……I am retired but a complete novice at stationary engines. I have bought a Stirling Engine and just bought a Wilesco D16 steam…..The reason I was thinking of compressed air is that I like the really slow motion of the pistons rather then the breakneck speed …I suppose you can get the slow operation with steam but thought it was less messy…….However I take on board all your comments about boiler pressure and will have rethink………As I said I am a complete novice …….my original idea was to somehow link engine to aquarium air pump but I dont suppose that would be sufficent. to drive it…Thanks

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by John Kinman on 30/03/2012 08:50:31:

Thanks Guys for all information ……

…..The reason I was thinking of compressed air is that I like the really slow motion of the pistons rather then the breakneck speed …I suppose you can get the slow operation with steam but thought it was less messy…….

……..my original idea was to somehow link engine to aquarium air pump but I dont suppose that would be sufficent. to drive it…Thanks

Hi John,

Steam engines can run very slowly, just think of all of those magnificent Victorian pumping engines. However I don't think that you will get such elegant movement from a small toy engine (Wilesco's description) – not mine) whether with steam or compressed air. As for 'messy', that is one of the attractions of steam engines, it appeals to my boyish instincts. Steam engines are not meant to be pristine.

If you are retired may I suggest a visit to the (free) Science Museum in London with their historic display of engines – a wonderful experience to touch actual engines that were working for our ancestors.

If you want to see the action moving slowly you could run it from a geared down electric motor such as is used in Meccano on the flywheel pulley.  Just pretend it is a generator run from the steam engine, or even dress it up to look like one.  I think that I'll pop up to view the pumping engines at Leicester Museum now that my appetite has been aroused.  I'll take some pictures while there.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 30/03/2012 10:02:06

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

HI John,

This is 'Messy' and shows what can happen to those who mess around with boilers . A factory boiler explosion about 1/4 mile where I was born – before my time though I must add:-

 

Boiler explosion at Batmans Hill Works, Bradely,  Coseley.

Quote:

"Bradley boiler explodes: January 20 (1903 – my year dating)- A boiler explosion in the No 2 mill at Tupper & Co's Batman's Hill ironworks at Bradley killed mill manager James Warren and engine driver Harry Southall instantly. Another 13 were injured with furnaceman Richard Cooper and roller Edward Holloway died in hospital. Thousands of people trekked to Bradley to view the devastation and a collection was made in the street for the families of the bereaved."

 

 

Bit extreme though! 

Regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 30/03/2012 10:21:58

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Terry,

I think you mean 1903 not 2003.

I now see you have corrected the error while I was typing my message.

Les.

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 30/03/2012 10:33:46

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 30/03/2012 10:46:05

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If the D-18 is like the Mamod, the boiler is filled by removing the safty valve, this means that if you pressurise the boiler at this point, there is no safty valve other than the piston block blowing off its seat. As I said in another thread, for testing my small wobblers, I use a 3 Litre garden sprayer, its quite adequate for short runs, and you won't blow up the boiler. I have tried my smallest steam engine direct on my compressor at about 100psi, the piston lifted off the seat about 1 to 1.5 mm, and the motor spun up,sounding like a bumble bee gone mad, No boiler involved. Ian S C

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ian, look at the links I posted to Mini steam,

"Use this nickle plated fitting to run your Wilesco steam engine on compressed air and still use your whistle with safety valve protection."

The Wilesco's have an additional bush for a whistle, the cpmpressor adaptors that I linked to are in effect just a "T" so all the functions remain including the safety valve which is not disturbed.. Also the mamod should not be via the safety valve, there is a plug on the backhead for filling which also serves to stop the boiler being completely filled with water causing priming.

There is also an actual Wilesco adaptor so you can pressurise the system from a car foot pump so another safe option.

When I run my engines off a compressor I wind the regulator down to about 10psi so there is no risk of over pressurising the engine. I also use the same method to test run the traction engines putting air straight into the boiler. As I said its all safe provided you have the compressor regulator as this limits the pressure output even though the actual compressor tank may be at 100psi or more. They are just like the propane regulators and work in the same way.

John you should still be able to get a certain amount of speed control when running with steam, just don't open the steam valve very much, this is in effect your throttle.

J

 

 

Edited By JasonB on 30/03/2012 13:18:43

Edited By JasonB on 30/03/2012 13:19:35

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

JasonB, on the Mamod(SE-2 I think mine is) to fill remove safty valve and put in the little plastic funnel, remove the plug in the end of the boiler, fill with water untill it comes out of the hole in the end of the boiler, replace the plug and valve. you could pressurise via the end plug, the whistle, or the safty valve. If one wished to run on air, or steam, you could break the steam line, and fit a two way valve, that way it would not be necessaryto pressurise the boiler with air. There's a wee project, build a low pressure compressor to run the steam engine, surely it would not be too hard to make one that runs quietly, unlike the little 12V portable ones. Ian S C

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Ian,

You are quite correct, the Mamod instructions state that the end plug is a filler level. If the boiler were to be filled through the water level hole it would have to be held vertically using the funnel provided, a novice could fill the boiler completely and perhaps get a faceful of boiling water when the safety valve blows.

John, my problem with a compressor is not necessarily the pressure but the speed at which the boiler would fill. In that case there are all sorts of dynamic forces at play which influence the pressure vessel integrity. I would not advise a novice to use one but a garden sprayer would be ok as they have a built in low pressure safety valve. Just my opinion, but my pressure vessel experience is restricted to a few years designing large ones in the late 60s, early 70s.

Have regards for safety until you are experienced.

Best regards

Terry

Terry

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I stand corrected on the filling method of the Mamod but the rear plug or whistle could be used to run off a compressor and the safety valve retained. Its been a while since by brother let me play with his!!

Terry with the regulator you can also set the rate of innitial fill, set regulator to zero pressure open valve between compressor and boiler – nothing happens – then slowly wind open the regulator until the desired psi is reached. Its not like instantly connecting the little boiler to 100psi of pressure and pumping in 10cfm of air when the safetys will lift at about 20psi and won't be able to flow the volume the compressor is supplying.

Also when filled with water like I suggested there will be very little space for compressed gas (air) so any potential bang will be minimal as the water wont expand like the small volume of compressed gas so no boilers like in your picture. This is also why boilers are hydralically tested rather than being pumped full of air to twice working pressure.

J

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Jason,

I do have a compressor, and understand how to use it including filters and gauges. I used pneumatic systems extensively when teaching Control Technology to students and well know the dangers of compressed air.

I still wouldn't use it on on a toy pressure vessel let alone advise a novice to do so, but that may be my own aversion to danger. On the engine itself yes, but on the boiler no. I see no advantage in pressurising such a small pressure vessel with a potentially aggressive source when there are other perfectly satisfactory and suitable methods of running an engine including driving it with an electric motor for demonstration purposes or attaching a compressed air supply directly to the cylinder.

I never thought that there would be an explosion caused by overfilling (read my post), but I do think that boiling water expelled from a safety valve may be dangerous for the eyes. Just an opinion.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 30/03/2012 22:39:14

[John KinmanParticipant @johnkinman36462]

Thankyou……..I have read everything written on this forum and taken it on board……….I have a more basic question ……….My Wilesco D16 whistle with black lever is in bits……..I have the spring and thought it was simple to put back together……..However I tried various ways after dropping the little spring many times I couldnt figure how it fitted together to no avail……..I checked on web to see how it should look but no suitable pics…….Im annoyed because on the face of it it should an easy task…………..Could anyone be kind enough to send me pic on how the whistle with spring arrangement should fit please.

[John KinmanParticipant @johnkinman36462]

Found out problem with whistle parts were broken and missing……..Ordered new one and missing/broken parts were obvious

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