Which New Mill Vice?

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

I am looking at getting a new milling vice for use on Sieg KX3 and Sieg Super X3 and have shortlisted the Vertex Ang-Fixed VA-4 from Chronos or RDG and others and the DH-1 Precision Vice from Warco **LINK**.

I would value input from anyone who has or knows of either of these vices – the DH-1 is more costly, but appears more flexible and I am leaning towards this one. Any advice from you more experienced people before I commit would be useful.

Edmund

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

Have you looked at the Precision vice from Arc Euro Trade? I have 2 of these and have had no problems.

(No connection, just a happy customer)

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

For me, this is a precision vice, and I often have to grip 'rough' castings. I would not like to 'bash' the vice handle too hard on this one. However it look a nice bit of kit.

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

Posted by Steambuff on 27/06/2012 16:06:27:

Have you looked at the Precision vice from Arc Euro Trade? I have 2 of these and have had no problems.

(No connection, just a happy customer)

Yes I already have the 80mm jaw width one of these and am also very happy with it, and considered getting both the 50mm and the 100mm versions to suppliment it, but they are limited in their mounting and orientation options. The pair of them would be cheaper than either of the two I have shortlisted, but I want more flexibility, and the 100mm radial vice I originally got (£70) with the Sieg mill sadly has the fixed jaw out-of-square. I was wondering why I could not accurately square off blocks (I thought it was me or a mill problem), and eventually discovered that when I changed the vice – I could!

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi there

No need to bash a handle, use a ring spanner.

I have for many years.

Easy to do up to the pressure you want, either light or hard. Not broken a vice yet.

If you cut a ring spanner down, to say about two inches long, you can use it to open and close the vice very quickly.

regards David

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There
The Warco looks good.
I think Dave Fenner may have done a review in MEW a couple of years ago.
Could be wrong though.
If someone knows which issue it appeared in, I can set this as a free issue
for prospective subscribers to view.
regards David

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

There was a review of the DH1 in trade counter, issue 158.

I have had a DH1 for a couple of years now and am very pleased with it, having recently added the newly available high jaws, this has extended its usefulnes immensly.

Because of the unique design of the vice, it has an incredible capacity for such a small overall footprint, and can be used on its rotating base or removed and clamped directly to the mill table.

Because of the spacing and size of the T slots on my Ajax mill, I ended up making a sub plate to mount the vice when not used on the rotating base, however I would not consider this to be a downside.

cheers

CB

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Nice to see a blog about vices crop up at the right time: I have just received my 100mm radial precision vice from Arc Euro yesterday(usual disclaimer) & was wondering if anyone else had the same, it looks a nice piece if kit to fit onto my W16 mill …when it arrives, I was wondering though whether it would be a tad too big, maybe I should have got the 80 mm..

Cheers

George

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello David.
Hello Edmund.

 

In Trade Counter, issue158, page 44 and 45  You can find  "Warco DH-1 Vice Review"

Best regards
Dias Costa

P.S.: I queried MEW_Indexes to find the issue.

Edited By dcosta on 27/06/2012 21:04:51

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

158 has been set as the free issue so you can all read the Warco review.

regards David

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

CoalBurner – Thank you for your valuable comments regarding to your experience

Dias – thank you for locating the review

George – Not sure exactly which "100mm radial precision vice from Arc Euro" you are referring to as they only do a "100mm Cast Iron Radial Milling Vice"……. and I have one….. Their Precision Tool Vices are excellent but non radial.

David – Thank you for making the review issue available to all (I am a subscriber).

Result I think….. The Warco DH-1 it will be. Thanks everybody.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

EtheAv8r

Mea culpa ..it is a radial 'milling' vice, thanks for pointing this out, methinks ones grey matter is slowing down more than one thought.

Cheers

George

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

George, no problem but I suggest you check it for squareness ASAP as that is what I now have as a door-stop. I will look at improving it but it will be relegated to non critical operations.

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

I ordered the Warco DH-1 over the phone and the delivery was very quick indeed.

Sadly the quality of the DH-1 Vice itself is very disappointing. When I unpacked it there was evidence of the ‘hammered effect’ paint flaking off. Close inspection revealed a lot of debris and paint flake in the main-screw mechanism, paint flaking off having not adhered properly and some evidence of rusting under the painted surface. This surface is to be painted could not have been properly prepared, degreased, surface keyed and an etch primer applied to ensure proper bonding. Frankly quite why this item is painted at all is a mystery, surely it would be better for it to be ground all round and left as clear metal – like the Precision Tool Vices and 10mm Precision Universal Vice from ARC Euro?

I spent a good 1½ hours cleaning up the DH-1 vice, removing debris from the screw mechanism and removing flaking paint and oiling it ready for use. When I bolted it down to the mill table I noticed paint oozing out from under the hold-down points, so removed it and cleared away the paint from there too.

I then mounted the vice and carefully set-up the inside facing edge of the left end jaw clocked true along the Y axis. I then checked the other faces and unfortunatly they are well out of the stated tollerance- one of them by over 10 times the error! I have emailed the details to Warco last Monday – but have had no response yet.

[haroldParticipant @harold]

Posted by EtheAv8r on 19/07/2012 16:58:27:

Sadly the quality of the DH-1 Vice itself is very disappointing.! I have emailed the details to Warco last Monday – but have had no response yet.

Like you I have a KX3 and need a vice. Please keep us updated. Warco should respond to their usual high standard — if they do, the choice is made.

Cheers,

John

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

I have today had an email from Warco who will arrange for collection and replacement. They say this is an isolated problem for this vice so I am hopefull that the replacement will be perfect.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

"I have today had an email from Warco who will arrange for collection and replacement. They say this is an isolated problem for this vice so I am hopeful that the replacement will be perfect"

I doubt if this is really an isolated problem. As I have said several times before on various threads that some importers of Far Eastern tools and machinery do not carry out proper quality control methods and rely on either model engineers accepting sub-standard items and sorting the problem out themselves or happily replacing faulty items when returned to them and then basking in the praise they then get for giving "good service".

I urge my fellow model engineers to always complain about sub-standard goods and return them for replacement or a refund.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Warco have agreed to check and replace this vice.

Please restrain from futher comments until EtheAv8r has recieved his replacement.

regards David

 

 

Edited By David Clark 1 on 20/07/2012 17:00:37

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

Just a quick update. The replacement was delivered last Thursday (they tried to deliver Wednesday but no one home). So good service from Warco return wise. It was my Mothers 96th birthday Sunday and so I was away for an extended weekend and did not get to check out the replacement fully. I can comment on the state of the delivery packaging however.

The vice comes in a simple box mad out of MDF. This was put in a simple plastic bag wrapper for delivery. This wrapper was completely torn open at one end – however this did not result in any content loss.

However the state of the MDF box was not confidence inspiring – it had clearly been in a wet environment and the ‘lid’ of the box was warped and water expanded and very ‘fibrous’ – the lid was held on by two metal bands plus screws – just as well as the moisture had swelled the MDF such that the screws simply pulled out and had no holding power. The ‘user guide and accuracy certificate’ were badly damaged and torn through rendering it pretty useless, and the inside of the ‘lid’ has several impressions in it, both because the vice had been clearly bouncing around inside the MDF box during transit.

There is no damage evident to the vice itself, and it was cleaner debris-wise than the unit it replaced and has less flaking-off hammer effect paint. It was sealed in a plastic bag so no post manufacturing inspection. Never-the-less I spent a good hour cleaning it up ready to use and check out. I have not done this yet, but I did lightly close the left side pair of jaws (end and center) and found that when one end was just touching I could get a fag paper in the other end and slide it along to about 3/4 way across. I won’t be able to fully check the parallelism of the jaws in detail until the coming week-end.

[Chris CourtneyParticipant @chriscourtney72250]

Hi EtheAv8r,

I have had a DH1 vice for about 18 months, which I use on my CNC converted X3 Mill, I too purchased it from Warco. Mine was shipped in a plywood box rather than an MDF one, my box also had some transit damage due to the vice moving about, although the vice itself was undamaged.

I have to say that I am generally very happy with it, and it has proved to be a very versatile vice. It is capable of holding much larger workpieces than other vices of similar size. To achieve this the vice is very unconventional. The outer two jaws are located on a moving bar, and the centre jaw can be fixed in a number of positions. The centre jaw is held by two M8 bolts. To get the fixed jaw parallel with the moving jaw, you need to slacken off the two M8 bolts on the fixed jaw and then close the vice and press the fixed jaw against the moving jaw (or use a parallel spacer) and then tighten up the M8 bolts on the fixed jaw. The lack or parallelism between the jaws you are seeing should be easily corrected as described above. You need to do this every time you move the fixed jaw position.

The only problem I have found with the vice is that the 3mm rebate on the jaws has a slight radius in the corner, which makes it difficult to hold square edged components.

Chris

[Roger VaneParticipant @rogervane67137]

I've had one of these vices for about 18 months now, and I must say that I'm very pleased with it. The capacity is amazing and the vice is accurate and very versatile, especially with the optional vee-jaws and high-jaws.

The only problems that I've found are that due to the height of the vice (in it's full swivelling mode) the headroom available for tooling is reduced and also it is somewhat less rigid than a standard swivel base vice such as the Vertex K4 when taking heavy cuts.

With reference to the jaws not closing parallel, this is due to the clearance holes when bolting the loose jaw to the base – the trick here is to gently close the vice onto the workpiece and only then fully tighten the capscrews holding the loose (no tenon) jaw before tightening the vice fully. If you do this, my experience is that you will find that the grip is awesome.

Good luck with your vice, and I hope that you will find it as useful as I do.

Regards

Roger

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

Chris and Roger

 

Thank you very much for your input. I had wondered about the possibility of losening the bolts to achieve alignment, I take it that this does not only refer to the middle jaw but also the end ones?

It is a pity that there are not clear and detailed instructions for configuring the various setups and alignments – it may have been made in the East, but I understand the design is British and therefore readable and meaningful instructions could/should have been provided.

I assume that to hold the biggest piece of work one of the end jaws is removed from the central slide and middle jaw fixed to the end of the fixed base?

I am using it mainly on a KX3 but also on a Super X3 – what constitutes a heavy cut? Many thanks for your help and guidance.

Edited By EtheAv8r on 01/08/2012 14:23:05

[Chris CourtneyParticipant @chriscourtney72250]

The two end jaws are accurately located in machined recesses, it is only the centre "fixed" jaw that can be adjusted for alignment. There used to be a data sheet on the Warco website which showed the various combinations of jaw and workpiece positions…. it was a little cryptic, but once you have played around with the vice for a bit it makes sense.

I'm not sure what Roger regards as a heavy cut, but I've never had any problems with any cut I was prepared to take with an X3! I have however removed the swivel base from mine, I find that it is not particularly useful with a CNC mill, and removing it does increase rigidity a little.

I would recommend getting the extended height jaw set, the standard 25mm high jaws are a little small for many jobs.

Chris

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I agree with Roger on the Jaw alignment, this is exactly how it was explained to me by the designer when I first saw this vice demonstrated at a ME exhibition.

I can highly (no pun intended) recommend the high jaws, I have both hardened and aluminium high jaws as well as the Vee jaws, they all have their uses along with the standard jaws.

I think EtheAv8r you have been a little unlucky in your experience, my vice has been used and abused over the past few years and still has most of its paint. I would agree that the supplied box is poor quality, although I recall mine was ply rather than MDF. Mine now resides in an oak box (recycled kitchen cupboard doors) when not in use with plenty of silica gel as I do have a bit of a rust problem in the winter months, (hopefully a new heating system will sort this out this year )

IF you still have problems it would be worth giving Warco a call and having a chat with Doug who designed the vice.

CB

[Author]

Posts