What’s the best way of telling a poster he’s wrong?

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

John Rees, In the spirit of Michael's post I would have to agree that "fast" should have been in there! On the other hand, I would also point out that a fact is generally subject to interpretation based on "opinion" "experience" and "theory"

Mark

Added Johns surname to save confusion!

Edited By Mark C on 24/01/2017 18:05:43

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

Mark C

I am sorry I don't understand what you mean by 'fast'.

Am i right in thinking you mean 'fact' (not being pedantic just need to make sure). If so, yes I agree.

Edited By John Shepherd on 24/01/2017 18:10:38

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I think information overload, or misinformation, appears to have become a hot button topic quite recently, and I suspect it will pass like all fashions do.

We can bemoan wrongsters all we like. We can't control their minds, and if their opinions don't match ours, then we have to leave it up to the recipient to decide what he/she thinks is right. Normally common sense prevails in people who pay attention to it.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 24/01/2017 18:14:18

[Matthew ReedParticipant @matthewreed92137]

As a relative newbie, dare I comment????

Health and Safety issues are always worth pointing out. I'm quite capable of injuring myself without additional input from dubious forum advice, but do remember that many things people of an older persuasion were trained to do, can now be identified as dangerous. When at school, aged 11 (1973) I was told to keep the chuck key in the chuck when not in use so it wouldn't go missing…. but then many apprentices in the 50s would have smoked and worn a tie while at the lathe, while using a scrap of asbestos……

I have posted some requests for info. It really helps if lots of people say " I agree with John, he's got it right." Helps you know what's worth following, and what's a load of twaddle. You don't have to say Bill's got it wrong, just John has got it right.

It is not helpful if people answer a question about a mill with an answer about a lathe, neither is a suggestion that I should have paid 20 times my budget, bought something bigger than my living room, or purchased it in 1968…. these are all pretty common.

Sometimes other relative newbies understand what I am asking better than old hands- I'm learning a new language as well as skills here, and I don't always know what the question is ( and I do know quite a bit about some areas…)

I will admit, sadly, that I have not asked some questions for fear of being seen as plonker for not knowing already.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Rick Kirkland 1 on 24/01/2017 14:58:45: Even then one of them would come back with their own opinion. There's always one.!

 

 

With all due respect-

 

People are entitled to opinions & provided they are not presented in a way that causes offence to others then one should be allowed to express it. (  I suppose I am doing it now!!!)

Just because someone says something is correct does not always mean it is so. If we did not question past practice we might not get anywhere & there is nothing wrong in questioning the basis

It might also be pointed out that in stating what might be fact some do tend to add bits of there own " fact" to the issue & that is where it goes wrong & leads to the necessity for alternative opinion or further question to clarify the validity

 

 

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 24/01/2017 18:36:56

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

John Shepherd, yes, that's what I get for not reading my message carefully…

Mark

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I think we can take our lead from public life

1/ Demand the Original Poster re-ask the question on the basis that we don't like the answer.
2/ Go to court to demand that the decision is delayed by having more people provide their answers
3/ Call a rally of people wearing funny hats for no particular purpose

Again generally in real life I find being blunt or pompous with alternative viewpoints ("facts" if you will) isn't the best approach. Gently hint that an alternative operation might be worth considering.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Matthew Reed on 24/01/2017 18:12:37:

As a relative newbie, dare I comment????

I will admit, sadly, that I have not asked some questions for fear of being seen as plonker for not knowing already.

Hi Matthew, you should not have fear of asking questions that you don't know the answer too. I doubt that there is anybody here that hasn't learnt some blatantly obvious things that they did not know about, myself included. Anyway which is the worst of the two evils, feeling a plonker for asking, or realising you are a plonker when you have messed something up really badly for not asking for advice or reassurance of your own ideas?

Regards Nick.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

".. Some folk do go off faster than a tin of pre-war Vietnamese snoek. Lol

Eh?"

As one who totally lacks any engineering expertise, I shall restrict myself to answering Georgineer's query – 'Snoek' was the most disgusting product foisted on an unsuspecting post-war(2ndWW) public as supposedly edible meat substitute!! It was, in fact, whale meat, sold in tins and avoided by anyone who had a taste bud left! For me, it joins the pink blancmange and school mutton dinners as a comestible to be avoided like the plague! Ughhh – the memories!!

rgds

Bill

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Oh dear, "what's the best way of telling a poster he is wrong?"

I believe Snoek was actually a South African sea fish rather than whale. Snoek is Dutch/Afrikaans for pike.

My parents, both in the army during the war, were of the opinion that soya links (presumably a vegetable sausage) where the worst thing ever offered up as a food substitute.

Sorry Bill,

Rod

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I had to google it:

http://www.recipespastandpresent.org.uk/wartime/?p=291

Neil

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Tell him he is an idiot and wrong ………………………………………

Only joking

[Ron ColvinParticipant @roncolvin83430]

Is this the leaflet to which Rick is referring to.

Paragraph one, page one seems to cover the point made.

http://www.neme-s.org/images/Jacobs_Collet_Chuck/Jacobs_Rubber_Collet_Chuck.pdf

Ron

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Ron Colvin on 24/01/2017 21:48:36:

Is this the leaflet to which Rick is referring to.

Paragraph one, page one seems to cover the point made.

http://www.neme-s.org/images/Jacobs_Collet_Chuck/Jacobs_Rubber_Collet_Chuck.pdf

Ron

That is actually the spindle chuck that doesn't have a chuck key. The paragraph in question refers to the Camlock fitting.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 24/01/2017 19:50:33:

I believe Snoek was actually a South African sea fish rather than whale. Snoek is Dutch/Afrikaans for pike.

I've not knowingly eaten snoek, but I have eaten whale. And very nice it was too, a bit like beef in texture and taste.

Andrew

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Rick Kirkland 1 on 24/01/2017 14:58:45:
MANY years ago my father was in possession of paperwork from the chuck manufacturer clearly giving use and care instructions. One of these was to gently use ALL THREE KEY HOLES to fully tighten the chuck.
I just wish I had that leaflet now to upload here for the knowalls to read and digest. Even then one of them would come back with their own opinion. There's always one.!

So it's your contention that this leaflet should put an end to the discussion? I don't really see why.

Apart from the fact that you don't actually have said leaflet (referring to evidence that you can't produce is a poor way to support an argument) simply recommending that all three holes be used doesn't really advance the discussion in that thread significantly. Granted it comes from a chuck manufacturer but passing along the standard line that has been handed down in that company from time immemorial isn't really any better than the same recommendation that many had from older toolmakers in their youth and so stated in the thread.

Now if the leaflet gave a convincing explanation of why all three holes should be used that would be different. Otherwise, I don't really see it as definitive. And after all, the explanation of why all three holes should be used did form a major part of Sam's original question.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

A bit like Clarkson who did publish instructions on how to tighten an autolock chuck up in that you don't leave a gap but let the cutter do the tightening ??

But every tool maker I know leaves a gap or the tool offsets go to hell in a hand basket when it self tightens ??

Must be right as Clarkson says it is but rather a moot point as industry has moved on to ER's

Personally I think Jacobs should have stuck to making cream crackers, all mine were sold on or scrapped years ago and have been on keyless for ages, usually good imports.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Deleted

Edited By not done it yet on 25/01/2017 06:00:14

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by John Stevenson on 25/01/2017 01:34:26:

Personally I think Jacobs should have stuck to making cream crackers, all mine were sold on or scrapped years ago and have been on keyless for ages, usually good imports.

They can't be doing too bad, I had a friend who moved back to Barbados after living in England, thing she missed most about it was Jacobs cream crackers. (Don't know if that's a good or bad thing!)

Anyway I must've picked up a rum keyless chuck as it nearly always slips the drill (so I stopped using them hence forth).

I do have a much older one that I haven't used that uses a ratchet clamping mechanism, perhaps that's what the bad one was missing.

In a light reference to another thread, perhaps I should make sure I tighten it, with my hand correspondingly over each jaw to make sure I achieve even clamping pressure!

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 25/01/2017 06:57:13

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I don't see any need at all to tell a poster he is wrong. Simply state what you consider to be the correct answer and move on.

I'm always mostly sometimes in mind of the ancient Taoist saying: If you win an internet argument you are still a loser.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Sometimes it might be worth talking to the poster in private instead of trying to score points by blasting them online. Maybe the poster does have a genuine reason for their ideas and a 1 on 1 chat could be most revealing and could even result in the fact that you were actually wrong in the first place!

Saves a lot of public egg-on-the-face moments and could even result in a new friend.

Bottom Left is the Icon Message member ,so how many people actually use it?

Unless (as has already been pointed out) safety is compromised and it is vital to get the correct procedure out immediately then consider the 'softly softly catchee monkee' approach as it often works.

* Danny M *

Edited By Danny M2Z on 25/01/2017 08:55:51

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

But how do you tell a poster he's wrong telling the previous poster that he's wrong?

Edited By Brian Oldford on 25/01/2017 10:24:07

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Isn't just a case of "reader beware"? This forum is just part of the internet and not everything you may find on the internet will be factually correct. You learn to make your own judgements on correctness and quality and, like life, who's advice you trust and who's you don't.

I did my ME apprenticeship using these forums and appreciated every bit of advice I was given. At the time some of it may have been a bit suspect. I wasn't to know, but it was generally good enough to give me a clue, make a decision, apply a bit of common sense and work out how I may achieve a result with the equipment I had available.

So when it comes to the forum if something does seem right it probably isn’t, just let it go. Somebody may well offer an alternative solution as input to your decision processes.

I must add, when it comes to being in print I would hope to not see errors that are clearly wrong, particularly when there are photos that confirm such. It happens

Pete

---

 

Edited By Doubletop on 25/01/2017 10:24:41 (no idea why "decision" is in bold…..)

Edited By Doubletop on 25/01/2017 10:25:39

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Roderick – No need for apologies; this was probably a classic example of what prompted the OP's query. My version of 'snoek' was derived from what was being published AT THE TIME!! As a young lad, what was published was accepted as 'the gospel' and no arguments. Thankfully, nowadays people are less submissive although a worryingly large number buy newspapers – and BELIEVE the contents!! … but that's a whole different bag of worms

rgds

Bill

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I would like to resectfully point out that the commonly used container for worms, is a can and not a bag

Phil

Edited By Phil P on 25/01/2017 12:59:23

[Author]

Posts