What’s the best alternative to ‘loctited’

[Brian Sweeting 2Participant @briansweeting2]

Just been having a quick look around the Loctite website and came across the term "retain".

Their retaining compounds seem to cover usage from loose to interference fits.

I think retain is a good choice because it doesn't imply a non-failing joint that words such secured can do.

**LINK**

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

I would agree that "loctited" isn't a suitable description of the bonding (fixing, retaining, etc.) process. Henkel produce a huge range of adhesives for bonding metals, plastics, wood, in fact almost everything. I have used Loctite branded adhesive for bonding teak decking to a polyester fibreglass composite boat and a different sandable grade for caulking. Neither of those would be suitable for fixing a loco wheel to its axle or a clock collet to its arbor .

As editor I think you have a responsibility to ensure that someone attempting to repeat what an author has done has a reasonable chance of succeeding safely. If the author has not specified the adhesive used you should ask for clarification before publishing.

Russell

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 22/05/2018 15:44:24:

.

As editor I think you have a responsibility to ensure that someone attempting to repeat what an author has done has a reasonable chance of succeeding safely. If the author has not specified the adhesive used you should ask for clarification before publishing.

That would assume the author used a suitable grade product in the first place and may also make the person repeating the task to think they must use a specific grade. 99% of the time I use 648 as I have a big bottle of it if I wrote that then builders may think they need to use 648 when 638 etc would do the job.

Edited By JasonB on 22/05/2018 15:51:27

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Agreed Jason but at least they would be able to replicate what you had done. That is, of course, if they have your level of skill

Russell

[Jim NicParticipant @jimnic]

Who, other than Neil, thinks that using "Loctite" as a generic term is, or has caused, a problem in the building of a model.

There is plenty of on-line information for the guidance of those unsure of the right adhesive for a particular application and surely part of the hobby is using one's own judgement and learning new things in making mechanical devices.

Jim

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

Bonded using ********.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Clive Foster on 22/05/2018 13:04:41:

loctited specifically covers fixing a shaft it a hole or male and female threads to a suitable degree of permanence.

If only MEW contributors were that specific – they are quite happy to use it for applications where it's more likely a cyanoacrylate superglue has been used. The recent thread on 'superglkue chucks' is an honourable exception!

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Mike on 22/05/2018 12:52:05:

Above all, let us not start using nouns as verbs.

You have a problem with people verbing nouns?

Neil

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

'Bonded' was certainly Industrial Engineer-speak for glued in the 70s and 80s when I was in that game.

But to me 'loctited' is OK as a generic for thread-locking adhesive, even though we hoover our house with a Panasonic.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/05/2018 17:13:57:

Posted by Clive Foster on 22/05/2018 13:04:41:

loctited specifically covers fixing a shaft it a hole or male and female threads to a suitable degree of permanence.

If only MEW contributors were that specific – they are quite happy to use it for applications where it's more likely a cyanoacrylate superglue has been used.

.

It could easily get worse: **LINK**

http://www.loctite.co.uk/lubrication-anti-seize-4488.htm

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 22/05/2018 15:44:24:

If the author has not specified the adhesive used you should ask for clarification before publishing.

No, I have to assume that readers have the nous to choose a suitable adhesive or material.

Otherwise I would have to get a specification for every last nut, bolt and washer, let alone demand a specification for every bit of steel, cast iron, allow or plastic…

Some authors do specify such information, especially for detailed construction articles, but if every article did MEW would be a journal, not a magazine.

In the case in had it is a lengthy 'this is what I did' article without plans aimed at inspiring others to find their own solutions and explain how issues were overcome and problems solved. I know the author was using shorthand for 'secured in place with a suitable retainer' but that sort of expression just doesn't fit the style of the article.

Neil.

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Neil, perhaps I'm an eccentric when it comes to the English language. Only a couple of days ago I had a somewhat heated discussion with my wife about what she will refer to as our "electric bill." To me it's our electricity bill, and pretty horrendous it is, too. However, don't let be side-track an interesting debate.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

And I suppose we can't araldite a joint together, or use Easy Flo, or mention any machine manufacturer. Heavens above, we might pick up a Philips screwdriver instead of a "cross point". I think we have a little bit of "Jobs Worth" creeping in.
BobH

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

My two pennies worth. When I first used loctite (nearly 50 years ago), that was all it was. I had no idea, back then, when loctite was first marketed. There were no other alternatives that I knew of. I think I still have that first small bottle – it did not go off like some later copies.

So, even though there are lots of grades and alternative manufacturers these days, I still refer to the general procedure as loctited. If using Loctite, I might (or should) use a capiltal ‘L’ to denote the proper noun as opposed to a generic term.

The terms will stay with me for the rest of my days, but I do accept that it may need extra qualification with all the different forms available these days. Roundup and glyphosate come to mind as another example.

I do often object to a cell being called a battery, or a different vacuum cleaner being called a Hoover. I also object to beehive boxes being referred as broods and supers when they are actually deeps and shallows (British National Hive Standard), or bees ’hatching’ from the larval state (eggs hatch, bees emerge).

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

How about STUCK ??

Just a thought !!

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Why not go the whole hog and say it's been nailed together?

Regards

Richard.

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Yes Mike

I totally agree an electric bill could be truly shocking! I could easily see me having the same argument as I insist that a toilet roll has the loose bit hanging from the front. Except that is if it is hanging from a wire holder old style on the back of the door in which case it has to come from the back.

As for the right word Neil I would just drop the 'e' and it now becomes "loctit" job done

Tim

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I'm shocked. Neil trying to find a bondage safe word? Not the sort of thing I expect to find on the internet…

[Enough!Participant @enough]

My take fwiw:

1. Loctite ranges from full adhesive to light retention depending on grade. Because of this it demands that when the … ahem verb …. "to loctite" is used it needs to be qualified with either the numerical grade or a grade description.

2. To me, bonding in the mechanical sense is synonymous with the use of adhesive. For the reasons above, I don't feel "to bond" can be used as a catch-all replacement for "to loctite".

3. It's rare, to the point of non-existence, in model engineering that referencing a specific Loctite grade means that only the trade-marked Loctite product can be used. I'm more than capable of finding an alternative manufacturer's equivalent product should the need exist. I suspect most others here are too. Therefore I tend to treat references to Loctite (and its associated "verb"  ) as generic.

4. If there's an actual problem with the status-quo of how the term loctite is used it escapes me. I think changes in this respect are likely to be a source of confusion rather than serving a useful purpose.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 22/05/2018 22:05:19

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Let clarity be thy guide. If you say something is to be glued, bonded or anaerobically retained, many readers will be left unsure what is meant. Rubber cement? Welded? Drain cleaner?

Whereas if you say something is to be Loctited (or loctited), it is clear that one should use the almost universally known product.

Let's give people credit for being able to decide for themselves which grade to choose, or an alternative brand of the same stuff, based on the information on the packaging. (Most often it comes down to what grade is available sitting in the workshop already!)

But, it would add even greater clarity if article writers included the grade of Loctite they used. If we can trust them to design or build the whole shebang, we have to have faith in their choice of Loctite grade.

As for nouns becoming verbs, endless verbs in the English language come from nouns, not just the trade-name derived ones either. EG, paint, frame, lather, drill, drive, cover, eye, and on and on.

It seems that in spoken English — which is the "real" language of which the written is merely a representation — Loctite is already a widely accepted and used verb along the lines of kleenex, hoover etc. It will probably take a bit longer to get into the dictionary because it is a specialist technical term with nowhere near the widespread usage of tissues and vaccum cleaners.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 22/05/2018 23:59:55:

…. Whereas if you say something is to be Loctited (or loctited), it is clear that one should use the almost universally known product.

Let's give people credit for being able to decide for themselves which grade to choose, or an alternative brand of the same stuff, based on the information on the packaging. (Most often it comes down to what grade is available sitting in the workshop already!)

But, it would add even greater clarity if article writers included the grade of Loctite they used. If we can trust them to design or build the whole shebang, we have to have faith in their choice of Loctite grade.

.

But surely Henkel has destroyed the logic of the first paragraph quoted above.

This makes the obvious and very reasonable desire for added clarity all the more important.

The final statement quoted above could easily be turned around:

If we cannot trust them to know or care what grade of Loctite they used; we cannot have faith in other aspects of the design or build.

MichaelG.

[oldveloParticipant @oldvelo]

Hi

What is the best alternative to Loctite.

Take more care when machining and make it fit properly!!!

Not always look at the job in hand and formulate the best approach.

Eric

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Maybe it should be bonded with XXX glue/adhesive/bearing retaining compound/thread locker/ etc

Neil

[WaggonermanParticipant @waggonerman]

Maybe ‘Chemically secured’ would cover all options?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The big problem with asking authors to include the product details that they actually used it that it will then generate a thread and a few letters questioning their choice of product and a lengthy debate on what would have been more suitable for the job in hand

Up until yesterday when Neil brought up the subject we had all been quite happy to use "loctited" so why change what up until know has been understood by us all bar one, if somebody wants to know more they only have to ask on the forum though will get many different answers.

[Author]

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