Way oil vs Chain bar oil vs motor oil

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

For many years i have used either motor oil or more recently chain bar oil for a chainsaw on my machines but a comment on a forum (can't remember which one ) that explained that way oil has certain additives to stop something called stick slip started me thinking that i may be missing out on something so i decided to investigate .

I have had a few issues with my mill sort of jumping as i move the Y axis using bar oil , the X axis is less a problem and i would guess it has to do with surface area as the y axis has less surface area than the x axis and i wasn't really happy with the performance of the bar oil on my lathes either .

A few days ago i decided to bite the bullet and get some proper way oil and the reason i hadn't done this before was getting say 5lt or so isn't possible or if you have bottomless pockets you can pay$50 a litre .

I ended up with some Shell Tonna 68 as that is what my local industrial supply outlet sells .

First test was on my C2 lathe and even though i thought i was running the carriage and cross slide a bit tight one application of this stuff i had to re tighten the taper gibs on the carriage as the bed felt loose and the cross slide now feels silky smooth !

Now converted and i can't wait to load my mill with this stuff !

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

I have seen the light !

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

I too have used mineral based chainsaw oil for my milling machine and lathe ways, thinking that some lubrication is better than no lubrication. I have also used car engine oil, both have worked, but when a friend gave me 5L of proper way oil I said thank you very much. I too experienced smoother movement of the slides and the price was of course, excellent. I now use the mineral based chainsaw oil on the lathe change gears.

Thor

 

Edited By Thor on 13/03/2020 09:45:03

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

I can understand why chainsaw bar oil might be considered, as it contains "anti-fling" additives, presumably similar to the "tackifier" additives in way oil. Without making a direct viscosity comparison, I'm guessing, that chainsaw bar oil is more viscous, because it needs some of it to cling to a chain travelling up to 30m/s. It also needs to be able to operate at high temperature. Anyone tried mixing bar oil and a straight low viscosity mineral oil?

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Posted by Bo'sun on 13/03/2020 16:15:01:

I can understand why chainsaw bar oil might be considered, as it contains "anti-fling" additives, presumably similar to the "tackifier" additives in way oil. Without making a direct viscosity comparison, I'm guessing, that chainsaw bar oil is more viscous, because it needs some of it to cling to a chain travelling up to 30m/s. It also needs to be able to operate at high temperature. Anyone tried mixing bar oil and a straight low viscosity mineral oil?

When I used mineral based chainsaw oil I tended to blend it with some ISO 68 mineral oil (may be not be low viscosity) because, as you say, chainsaw oil tends to be a bit more viscous. The chainsaw oil worked fairly well on the vertical slides on the milling machine.

Thor

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

I have mixed chain bar oil with that lucas oil treatment /conditioner stuff but it didn't help with the stick slip problem but as that Lucas oil stuff is super tacky it did make the oil hang around and is magic on back gears . I intend to continue using bar oil on everything except the ways as it is cheap , it works and is readily available.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I just use slideway68. I see little point in trying to replicate what works and is so cheap.

Jim

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

I've said it before, i'll say it again.

If for whatever reason you cannot buy a 5 litre can of way oil, the next best thing, which is available everywhere that has tractors and large lorries, is ISO68 hydraulic oil. Cheap as chips and sold anywhere that sells agricultural parts, tractor parts and commercial vehicle parts.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Plus 1 for ISO 68 as way oil, my machinery is used a lot and 5 litres lasts years. I also run ISO 32 in the lathe headstock and as general oil in the oil can.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

ISO 68 is just viscosity , proper way oil has additives to stop something called stick slip and is specifically designed for machine slide ways .

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Why use a hydraulic oil? You're paying for additives that are you don't need. Anti-foaming, high shear, anti-oxidising, viscosity index modifier, etc. I suspect it's just the viscosity that's doing the job. Any Tribologists care to comment?

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

I'd be unsurprised if !SO68 hydraulic oil proved more satisfactory on typically lighter home shop machines than the proper way oil. Proper stuff may be too sticky for really smooth movement on lightweight machines. Would need more frequent application though.

Even industrial machines don't always use way oil. My Smart & Brown 1024 has autofeed way lubrication from the apron. Specification calls for ISO 32 there. Saddle is very free moving once everything is up and running but first pass or two after its stood for a day or too is not as smooth. I run some Castrol Magna BD 58 slideway oil in front of and behind the saddle first thing and crank it back and forth a couple of times before starting work. Way oils aren't all the same. Some are tackier than others. BD 68 is specified for low speed bearing use so its not in the super tacky range.

If I were still running a lightweight machine, like the SouthBends I used to have, I'd probably use ISO 68 hydraulic oil for the ways and low speed bearings eg leadscrew et al, ISO 32 for the spindle bearings and motorcycle chain oil for the end gear train.

Clive

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

I have a almost new condition PBM2000 (Bridgeport Clone) with auto lubrication. I looked at the prices for Vactra 2 (vg68) way oil. Can also use this on my Myford and Colchester lathes and other machines. Some of the prices being charged are absolutely ridiculous for 1 litre and even 5 litre bottles are ludicrously expensive. £13 and £52 respectively Did some searching and found a local supplier who did me a 20l for £68. He forgot the VAT when quoted but he honoured the price quoted. At the price I paid it was £3.40/l with the VAT it would have been £4.08/l. This is a hell of a lot cheaper than the prices via Ebay etc. for even generic VG68 products.

I have another local friend also with a Bridgeport clone with auto lube so can keep him supplied as well if required.

It would pay to club together with friends in your local club and buy in bulk.

Colin

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Paratac is added to oil to make it stick, chainlube and chainsaw lube are classic applications, slide way lube needs to stay where it’s put but not create sticktion so an interesting combination.

Mike

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

I'd be unsurprised if !SO68 hydraulic oil proved more satisfactory on typically lighter home shop machines than the proper way oil. Proper stuff may be too sticky for really smooth movement on lightweight machines.

68 viscosity is 68 viscosity regardless of the application type.

Both slideway & hydraulic oil are available in lighter viscosities – FWIW I use 46 viscosity slidway oil (Millway 46 from Millers Oils) on my Myford & FB2 clone. Available on Ebay in litre bottles for £7.13 delivered.

32 viscosity slideway oil is also available. 68 gets mentioned mainly because it is the default for many industrial machines – of the 7 CNC machining centres & 8 CNC lathes at work all bar one specify 68 slideway oil. The odd one out uses 150 viscosity & I have had machines in the past that used 220.

Nigel B.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Posted by mgnbuk on 14/03/2020 13:57:02:

I'd be unsurprised if !SO68 hydraulic oil proved more satisfactory on typically lighter home shop machines than the proper way oil. Proper stuff may be too sticky for really smooth movement on lightweight machines.

68 viscosity is 68 viscosity regardless of the application type.

Both slideway & hydraulic oil are available in lighter viscosities – FWIW I use 46 viscosity slidway oil (Millway 46 from Millers Oils) on my Myford & FB2 clone. Available on Ebay in litre bottles for £7.13 delivered.

32 viscosity slideway oil is also available. 68 gets mentioned mainly because it is the default for many industrial machines – of the 7 CNC machining centres & 8 CNC lathes at work all bar one specify 68 slideway oil. The odd one out uses 150 viscosity & I have had machines in the past that used 220.

Nigel B.

Viscosity is a measure of flow rates under specified conditions. Its a useful sorting criteria to rank oils of similar base stock and similar composition. Especially when it comes to flow rate from pump to working surfaces through the passages / pipes in an engine. Actual lubrication and load carrying ability depends on thin film behaviour and forces needed to shear the film between two surface.

High tack slide way oils make it noticeably harder to start things moving and usually need more force to keep them going. But they will carry a higher load and are much better at staying where they are applied.

Modern oils and additive packs have properties well beyond simple viscosity sorting. Most of which we, fortunately, don't have to worry about.

Clive

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