Water in fuel

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Anyone remember Cleveland Discol, It was advertised as 'the alcohol petrol', and was certainly sold in the 50's

**LINK**

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by CHARLES lipscombe on 28/09/2019 04:18:12:

At long last I have been tempted to weigh in to the ethanol in petrol debate. The "problems" with ethanol fuel seem to have been greatly exaggerated to me. Australia has been using up to 10% ethanol in fuel for many years (10-15?).

In this time I have used it in three Toyotas dating from circa 1980 to 2000 plus in a variety of vintage and veteran motorcycles. I have never had the slightest problem from its use but the oldest Toyota runs a bit more smoothly on ethanol fuel, probably because of a rather poor state of tune.

More to the point is that I have never seen any reports of people having problems with ethanol fuel. Given the normal human tendency to knock anything new -it's not as good as what we used to have- I think it is safe to say that anyone using ethanol fuels is most unlikely to suffer any problems, despite theoretical disadvantages from possible water content and solvent power on fuel lines etc.

I don't include people who are using tank liners or fibreglass tanks in this comment. However being a very cold-intolerant person, my vintage bikes often sit for months in the winter and I have not noticed any rust formation in the tanks.

Maybe the dampness of the climate has an influence but there again I have never heard of problems from the tropical, monsoon area of Australia either

Chas

Off subject again. Read my original question/post and you'll see what I've been trying to find out. I'm not interested in how efficiently ethanol burns in the engine or whether it'll do any harm to the engine, nor water injection, we are stuck with what's available at the pumps.

What is alarming is the hidden rust this mixture appears to cause. Several here have stated how well their cars run on ethanol petrol mix, well maybe they do, mine does, but do you know what's going on inside, I guess not.

I have a few pictures of the petrol tank, vintage 2001, and the two fuel pumps vintage 2017. These apparently replaced the originals when the problem was first noticed. I would attach them if I knew how to.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Here is a linky to some more information Mercury marine engines and ethanol

I was tempted to search for the above as I remember seeing a new outboard motor with the annotation on the carton 'Warranty void if ethanol fuel used' . This was about 10 years ago.

* Danny M *

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by RMA on 28/09/2019 22:14:12

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I have a few pictures of the petrol tank, vintage 2001, and the two fuel pumps vintage 2017. These apparently replaced the originals when the problem was first noticed. I would attach them if I knew how to.

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… It’s top of the list of FAQs

**LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=103028&p=1

MichaelG.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Thank you Michael for the link, I've now created an album and will include the photos. (unfortunately the photos seem to have a mind of their own on here and I can't get the text where I want it, sorry about that. First attempt to load photos).

These show the degree of corrosion in a car from 2001, so not that old. The tank is of that vintage but the pumps are only two years old and are genuine Jaguar parts.

Top pic shows the pumps

Middle pic shows the bottom of the tank

Bottom pic show the pump sump in more detail

My fellow club member had a lot of hassle trying to diagnose the loss of power with the car, and after exhausting all ideas (On board diagnostics didn't really help in this case) finally had the courage to remove the tank, not an easy operation. What he found amazed everyone, but he has now replaced the lot with new genuine parts and it's all OK again, but for how long?

It would be great if someone can come up with answer to my original question, as engineers we like to deal in specifics rather than supposition. As I said early on in this thread, using additives including IPA may well sort this out, but without doing a strip down, how do you know if it works? And what do the internals of your car look like?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by RMA on 29/09/2019 07:07:04:

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Thank you Michael for the link …

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You’re welcome … Thanks for the very interesting pictures !!

MichaelG.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

It comes to mind, when I bought my first new Ford Escort Estate the fuel tank was leaking, I went to the Ford garage under warranty and they agreed and ordered a new tank but after a 2 week wait decided to take things into hand myself. Drained the tank and flushed out with water a few times and could not smell petrol anymore. I was able to take it to a friend who had a gas torch and fluxed the the cleaned area and flooded it with solder and killed spirits.

On examination I could see tha the petrol tank interior was lead coated ! so no corrosion.

PS, never did get the replacement petrol tank. Thank you Ford.

PS. sorry, I forgot to mention that this was an Export car, which may have a relavance.

Edited By Clive Hartland on 29/09/2019 09:00:22

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Sorry, I missed out a crucial bit of the detective work….and age thing.

The diagnostics seemed to point to the fuel gauge/sensor not behaving as it should, and after a long time spent getting to and removing said sensor, this is what came out and focused attention on the tank and pump condition.

I have started a new thread on Bio Diesel just to inform users of Diesel engines really. The investigation into that is very interesting with some startling pictures on the 'net.

[Author]

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