Warco WM250 Lathe and Warco WM18 Milling machine (Advice please)

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by JasonB on 18/05/2018 07:13:03:

It's a pity that the Warco guys did not spend a few mins checking over the mill when they went to collect but it seems the decision not to go with Warco had already been made.

The reason I asked Ketan for more details is that it would be very helpful as the next time someone comes onto the forum with a similar problem they could be told what to do to correct it particularly if it was such a simple adjustment according to Warco.

I agree with you Jason and that was the idea behind my asking Roger in the first place, so that future posters asking similar questions with similar problems might be able to get an answer.

The answer I got, I posted. Maybe you or STK could ask them and see what they say.?

Ketan at ARC

[STK2008Participant @stk2008]

Before I actually recorded it did run off the square I could see the verdict being shifted over the the side of the square a bit

Edited By STK2008 on 18/05/2018 07:48:46

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

I designed metal cutting machines for most of my working life and also workholding for CNC machines. Admittedly these were much larger than a hobby machine. All these machines including tha Japanese CNC machines had a test certificate but this was taken as a set of figures achieved to initially run the machine after build. In the case of special machines these were measured by producing the the component they were designed for and measuring that. The tolerance on the company's component was tightened to less than half of drawing tolerance, and applied to a run of components from hundreds to thousands. Then when these machines were delivered and installed all these settings were tested again. Nothing was accepted out of the box as in tolerance it had to be installed, bolted down as per requirement then levelled, spindle run in before final checks. Then for CNC machines these were rechecked every year on service or if a major part was replaced.

I have both a Sieg mill and lathe, both are fitted to wooden benches made from old kitchen units. Both were bolted down when first bought and cut metal with no checks other than tightening the gibs and checking all axis movements. Then metal was cut, and that is how they remain. I am not producing parts to micron tolerances, they are made to match there mating part. The drawings I work to have no inferred tolerance other than ream and everything is one off so I see no need to measure any axis unless I get an issue with a part and I will proceed that way.

If the machines were floor mounted with solid cast bases then I would check them after bolting down but that would have to be on a floor more substantial than a garage floor.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Speculation, hearsay, 'I imagines', analogies and perhaps the odd hobby horse appearing in this thread. Engineers should focus on the evidence! My take:

• STK2008 ordered a Mill and Lathe from Warco
• Warco were unable to fulfil the whole order and sent the Mill in advance
• STK2008 suspected the Mill was faulty and performed a series of unconvincing tests
• STK2008 took forum advice, did better testing, and showed that the Mill had excessive head nod or quill misalignment, cause unknown. As STK2008 had moved the head there is some possibility that, as a beginner, he caused the issue. We don't know.
• For reasons unknown STK2008 cancelled the whole order and asked for a refund.
• Warco did not communicate with the customer as well as they might have
• Warco collected the machine and refunded his money, without giving him a hard-time.

As grown-ups we all know that things go wrong. Nothing in life is perfect; we all start as learners and in the end we die. To me the final chapter of this story is the one that matters most. Without insisting that the mill was formally proved faulty, Warco collected the machine and refunded the money.

I've had loads of pleasure and use from my Chinese set up even though it's not tool-room quality. I just hope STK2008 is able move on from his disappointment and enjoy cutting metal with something else.

Dave

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 18/05/2018 04:51:31:

It is still not clear if there was a problem with the quill bore

This video seems pretty conclusive. **LINK**

Quill down at 25 secs

(If the square was not reasonably accurate that would be revealed when doing the Z axis downfeed)

Emgee

typo

Edited By Emgee on 18/05/2018 09:53:31

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Emgee on 18/05/2018 09:51:27:

Posted by Ketan Swali on 18/05/2018 04:51:31:

It is still not clear if there was a problem with the quill bore

This video seems pretty conclusive. **LINK**

Quill down at 25 secs

(If the square was not reasonably accurate that would be revealed when doing the Z axis downfeed)

Emgee

Emgee,

Without going into any detail as I would like to avoid further argument, I would find it difficult to say that the You Tube video is conclusive… in my opinion.

Even if I believe that we are non the wiser, long and short, STK made his comment – Warco told me their observation and I posted it. STK got refund, and the matter was concluded between the pair of them. Happy Days

Ketan at ARC.

[richard 2Participant @richard2]

May I say that I am now on my third mill from Warco.

I am only a self-taught machinist but –

All three machines (WM16B, then VMC Vario, and lastly WM18),

All were perfectly satisfactory and as accurate as I could want;

All three were delivered, installed and bolted down exactly where I asked;

The WM18 was delivered without the table power-feed installed but

Warco sent an engineer over and it was installed in about thirty minutes.

Were I to buy another machine it would certainly come from Warco.

No connection to Warco just a highly satisfied customer.

Richard 2.

[VicParticipant @vic]

It would be interesting to know what Warco have done to this machine to correct the problem. I know in the past others have “cured” their machines by removing errant paintwork or burrs. Perhaps there’s even some form of adjustment we’re not aware of?

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Ketan, I in no way wish to argue over the subject and am only stating what can be seen in the video, not repeating hearsay.

This post seems to state the same opinion.

JasonB

18/05/2018 07:12:37

Emgee

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

A lot of the Chinese machines that's been talked about over the years on various forums etc having inaccuracy problems were more than just some thing shifting out of adjustment whilst the machines were in transit. Some have had to dismantle their machines & things like the headstock or tailstock have had to be shimmed or even re machined to get them accurate. especially if the headstock or tailstock is out of line in the up & down plain, as their is no adjustment for this as things where not machined true in the first place. Also when you see the cross slide not machined @ 90 degrees to the carriage or headstock, when you see machining errors like this the machine could never of been accurate even when tested in the factory & a certificate was stamped & issued with the machine. I think some of these things are more than just going out of kilter due to transporting problems.

[Brian RutherfordParticipant @brianrutherford79058]

Bazyle you missed the point of my post. Of course its not an ideal job however and i quote from Warcos website

• Every milling machine we supply is fully checked and tested by a member of our qualified team, and is supplied with an individual accuracy test report.

This is blatantly untrue and should be removed from their literature.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

MARTIN, I remember past postings from Ketan where he has alluded to the fact that in respect of basic hobby machines coming out of the many Chinese factories that there are widely varying levels of quality. He has built a rapport with his suppliers in China that ensures he gets the level of quality that he wants for his customers, I have nothing but praise for Ketan and ARC, their quality is consistent and the level of service they give their customers is first class.

KETAN, you are to be praised for your willingness to be involved in this discussion, I know that you only do so to help us all with our hobby, acting as the middle man in the discussion has put both sides point of view and we must respect Warco’s decision not to engage in web discussions, perhaps they like a quieter life, I feel that we are all now much more aware of the facts since the first posting on page one and I thank you for helping to enlighten us all, perhaps now we should all retire to our workshops and cut metal with our chosen machines, however accurate or inaccurate they are!!!

Dave W

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Brian Rutherford on 18/05/2018 14:21:43:

Bazyle you missed the point of my post. Of course its not an ideal job however and i quote from Warcos website

• Every milling machine we supply is fully checked and tested by a member of our qualified team, and is supplied with an individual accuracy test report.

This is blatantly untrue and should be removed from their literature.

All down to how you interpret what that means.

Really depends on who's in the team and what qualification they have, could just as well be one of the factory inspectors or a bloke in Warco's warehouse.

Likewise all the machines are supplied with a test cert as this mill is question was, nothing in Warco's statement to say where the test certificate originates from or how trueful it may be

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by JasonB on 18/05/2018 14:48:04:

Posted by Brian Rutherford on 18/05/2018 14:21:43:

Bazyle you missed the point of my post. Of course its not an ideal job however and i quote from Warcos website

• Every milling machine we supply is fully checked and tested by a member of our qualified team, and is supplied with an individual accuracy test report.

This is blatantly untrue and should be removed from their literature.

All down to how you interpret what that means.

Really depends on who's in the team and what qualification they have, could just as well be one of the factory inspectors or a bloke in Warco's warehouse.

Likewise all the machines are supplied with a test cert as this mill is question was, nothing in Warco's statement to say where the test certificate originates from or how trueful it may be

Absolutely – there is a comma in there, which splits it into two statements, which may have been made relating to events many thousands of miles apart.

It might be a bit of a grand claim,but then it wouldn't be the first!

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