Ultrasonic toothbrushes

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

My wife has bought (at considerable expense) an ultrasonic toothbrush for use on the hounds. It came with a tube of special ultrasonic canine toothpaste (peppermint, which they really don't like) and a warning that we had to buy their special paste (at £15 for a 44g tube) or it wouldn't work. I doubt that, but maybe there are ultrasonic experts on here who could advise?

Robin.

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I can't advise, Robin … but I did have a dig around, and found this: **LINK**

https://www.electricteeth.co.uk/sonic-vs-ultrasonic-electric-toothbrush-comparison-infographic/

MichaelG.

.

Edit: and this might be of interest:

https://www.emmi-dent.com/ultrasonic-toothpaste/

 

[quote]

The ultrasound generates millions of microscopic bubbles (scientific evidence: Goethe University Frankfurt/Main 2015). Due to their small size, these micro bubbles can reach hard-to-reach areas where they unfold their full cleansing effect. Ultra-clean teeth like after a professional teeth cleaning are the result. Due to the innovative operating principle, you can position the ultrasonic toothbrush at your teeth without any necessary additional movement required. This way the toothbrush will not damage or hurt your tooth’s enamel or gum as unnecessary pressure is not needed.

[/quote]

.

Found this, just in time to edit into my post: 

https://emmishops.web.mageprofis.de/media/pdf/ba/08/eb/Goethe-Universitat_Mikroblaschen.pdf

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/08/2019 00:16:36

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by Robin Graham on 22/08/2019 23:48:36:k

My wife has bought (at considerable expense) an ultrasonic toothbrush for use on the hounds. It came with a tube of special ultrasonic canine toothpaste (peppermint, which they really don't like) and a warning that we had to buy their special paste (at £15 for a 44g tube) or it wouldn't work. I doubt that, but maybe there are ultrasonic experts on here who could advise?

Robin.

 

 

How the other half lives eh😉.

Can’t advise on Ultrasonics but when we had a dog manual toothbrushes were used which looked very similar to ones for humans but were more expensive being pet specials.

We also used beef flavoured toothpaste specifically for dogs which she loved so teeth cleaning time was (relatively) easy.

Edited By V8Eng on 23/08/2019 11:41:45

Edited By V8Eng on 23/08/2019 12:01:14

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Don't go putting human toothpaste into your dogs mouth,see item 3

Mine like Malt flavour, not the whisky type.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

It seems it is like buying and using an ink-jet printer, only worse. With printers it is buy cheap (some almost given away) and pay though the nose for ink cartridges. Here it seems like buy expensive and still be shafted for consumables! I suspect they see most/many/some pet owners as an easy money-spinner.

Dogs (even hounds) like a good bone to chew on.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by JasonB on 23/08/2019 11:43:25:

Don't go putting human toothpaste into your dogs mouth,see item 3

Mine like Malt flavour, not the whisky type.

I would be very sceptical about that and suspect it's some sort of veterinary myth otherwise all dogs in naturally or artifically flouridated water areas would be toast. Xylitol sweetener possibly in some toothpastes would be a concern.

Back when i was still working and the idea of owners brushing their dogs teeth was mooted I used to suggest they tried with pearl drops tooth polish – the original sort before they started adding flavours etc. It seemed to work fine. It's easy enough to flavour stuff if'n ya want.

Just as a curiosity.. back in the beginning of the 20th centuray poor folk were often advised to scrape charcoal off burned toast and grind with water to make a dentifrice (IIRC extracted from a copy of the complete herbalist by prof o phelps – but my copy got nicked years ago)

pgk

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by pgk pgk on 23/08/2019 14:00:38:

Posted by JasonB on 23/08/2019 11:43:25:

Don't go putting human toothpaste into your dogs mouth,see item 3

Mine like Malt flavour, not the whisky type.

I would be very sceptical about that and suspect it's some sort of veterinary myth otherwise all dogs in naturally or artifically flouridated water areas would be toast.

…

pgk

My Humphreys Veterinary Toxicology says a dusting powder containing 40% Sodium Fluoride caused poisoning in a dog in 1946. I'm not surprised, that's strong stuff compared with toothpaste!

Also mentions castrated pigs bleeding to death after dosing with Sodium Fluoride – those poor animals certainly had a bad day. I can warn sheep owning members of the forum to beware of volcanic eruptions – acute fluoride poisoning is caused by high levels of fluorine in ash.

Reading on, I see I share most of the symptoms of sheep poisoned by Sodium Fluorosilicate pesticide: salivation, inappetence, dullness, dyspnoea and recumbency! Can't wait to tell my GP about it. She's always delighted to hear all the details of my latest self-diagnosed ilness…

Dave

PS. I picked the toxicology book up for 50p in a charity shop and everything else I know about Veterinary Science comes from watching the works of James Herriot on TV. I think that makes me an expert.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If all else fails, you may have the embryo of an ultrasonic cleaning bath, assuming that SWMBO will agree!

Howard

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

pgk – the "charcoal for poor folk" persisted into the 40s at least, although it was given as soot (from the common family range). Applied by finger, not brush and, supposedly had a natural whitening effect. War-time restrictions probably led to it being encouraged.

rgds

Bill

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Flouride aside (just use dog toothpaste) you don't have to use special toothpaste with human ultrasonic toothbrushes.

Question: If I can clean my dog's teeth by feeding it biscuits, why can't I clean my teeth by eating biscuits?

Neil

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

Question: If I can clean my dog's teeth by feeding it biscuits, why can't I clean my teeth by eating biscuits?

Neil

You can, just eat the same biscuits

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

I had an original Philips Sonicare, wonderful tooth brush, when the batteries died I replaced it with another brand but never worked as well. Eventually I just went back to manual.

I think I still have it some where, after all never know when it will be useful, think it might get butchered to make a power cleaning brush for the workshop.

I used to work with US machines, the important thing is US needs a media to travel through, air is not good. So anything that will keep the brush and tooth nice an wet should work. I dont think a dog would appreciate a mouth full of KY jelly. Dog drool is pretty sticky and sloppy, so I would think anything that gets them to slobber would work.

Maybe if you eat chocolate biscuits while brushing your dogs teeth it might create enough dog slobber.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 23/08/2019 15:12:28:

 

My Humphreys Veterinary Toxicology says a dusting powder containing 40% Sodium Fluoride caused poisoning in a dog in 1946. I'm not surprised, that's strong stuff compared with toothpaste!

Also mentions castrated pigs bleeding to death after dosing with Sodium Fluoride – those poor animals certainly had a bad day. I can warn sheep owning members of the forum to beware of volcanic eruptions – acute fluoride poisoning is caused by high levels of fluorine in ash.

Reading on, I see I share most of the symptoms of sheep poisoned by Sodium Fluorosilicate pesticide: salivation, inappetence, dullness, dyspnoea and recumbency! Can't wait to tell my GP about it. She's always delighted to hear all the details of my latest self-diagnosed ilness…

Dave

PS. I picked the toxicology book up for 50p in a charity shop and everything else I know about Veterinary Science comes from watching the works of James Herriot on TV. I think that makes me an expert.

And the classic flouride effects on farm animals in the fall-out of brick kilns (back when we still made our own bricks) – led to bone changes and spontaneous fractures. As a student with a holiday job in the brick fields I did refuse to clean out the kilns since no respirators were provided and the dust was very very fine.

I admit to never having diagnosed a case of flouride poisoning – which sadly isn't necessarily the same as not seeing a case. We did have a mercury poisoning, several marijuana cases, one heroin abuse and in the early days benzoic acid was commonplace from inappropriate pet food preservative levels. Then the usual mix of slug or rat baits, paracetamol, one TCP case and I'm sure many others that slip the mind at the moment.

The James Heriot stories were correct for their era but things change.. much of what we did in my early days 50yrs ago became known to be totally wrong later. Paradoxically some of it came back into fashion when it was realised that it worked better than the contemporary therapy and finally folk went to the bother of understanding why…

pgk

Edited By pgk pgk on 23/08/2019 18:17:51

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by pgk pgk on 23/08/2019 18:17:14:

The James Heriot stories were correct for their era but things change.. much of what we did in my early days 50yrs ago became known to be totally wrong later. Paradoxically some of it came back into fashion when it was realised that it worked better than the contemporary therapy and finally folk went to the bother of understanding why…

Well he succeeded in putting me off a career in veterinary medicine… the thought of being shoulder deep in the wrong end of a cow!

Neil

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/08/2019 18:34:34:

Posted by pgk pgk on 23/08/2019 18:17:14:

The James Heriot stories were correct for their era but things change.. much of what we did in my early days 50yrs ago became known to be totally wrong later. Paradoxically some of it came back into fashion when it was realised that it worked better than the contemporary therapy and finally folk went to the bother of understanding why…

Well he succeeded in putting me off a career in veterinary medicine… the thought of being shoulder deep in the wrong end of a cow!

Neil

Youngsters have the benefit of shoulder-length disposable gloves. Back in my college days such niceties were an extravagance hence the lady students rarely went out with their classmates…

The benefit of that end it doesn't have teeth but beware when it's a horse…But at least you do have one warm arm on a winter's day.

pgk

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

Thanks. The device in question is an Emmi-Pet (about 2/3 the cost of a Femi bandsaw, priorities are all wrong round here), so a proper ultrasonic I think. It does seem to be working – plaque is beginning to flake off and the animal's breath, though not sweet, seems to have less of the whiff of Satan's cesspit.

I think MichaelG's second link answers my original question:

Toothpaste without abrasive particles

While you could theoretically forego using toothpaste when using a conventional toothbrush due to the brushing motion, using the special ultrasonic toothpaste for micro cleaning with emmi®-dent is a must. In contrast to standard products, our special toothpaste is free of abrasive particles that could permanently damage your teeth’s enamel. This is why ultrasonic toothbrushes not only prevent gum inflammation and periodontitis, but are perfect for people with sensitive gums or with pre-existing gum problems.

The first sentence seems to me almost meaningless. What follows suggests that the special quality of their toothpaste is that it's non-abrasive – nothing to do with ultrasound transmission, so I reckon gravy and dog slobber (thanks Adrian) should work.

Robin

 

Edited By Robin Graham on 24/08/2019 23:55:42

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Robin Graham on 24/08/2019 23:50:49:

[ … ]

I think MichaelG's second link answers my original question:

Toothpaste without abrasive particles

While you could theoretically forego using toothpaste when using a conventional toothbrush due to the brushing motion, using the special ultrasonic toothpaste for micro cleaning with emmi®-dent is a must. In contrast to standard products, our special toothpaste is free of abrasive particles that could permanently damage your teeth’s enamel. This is why ultrasonic toothbrushes not only prevent gum inflammation and periodontitis, but are perfect for people with sensitive gums or with pre-e

The first sentence seems to me almost meaningless. What follows suggests that the special quality of their toothpaste is that it's non-abrasive – nothing to do with ultrasound transmission, so I reckon gravy and dog slobber (thanks Adrian) should work.

.

[my emboldening]

… You seem to have omitted reference to the micro bubbles, Robin

… as illustrated in the Goethe-Universitat link

MichaelG.

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

Mmmm… interesting thread. I would have thought the ultrasonic sound/vibration would have sent the hound running miles!

I must try some ultra sonics on our dog… 🤔

John

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Who brushes their dogs teeth???? Next thing you will be telling me you wipe it’s bum !

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

There seems to be a substantial typo here:

[quote] Ultrasonic toothbrushes like the Emmi-Dent Club Series provide a pulse of 96 Million Oscillations per minute resulting in 1.6 million megahertz ultrasound frequency. Others such as the Ultreo and Megasonex provide sonic vibrations ranging from nine thousand to forty thousand sonic vibrations per minute.[/quote]

1.6 million megahertz

.

Ref. **LINK**

https://ultrasoundhealthcare.wordpress.com/page/2/

But there is some good background reading, and a link to this video:

**LINK**

MichaelG.

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/08/2019 18:34:34:

Well he succeeded in putting me off a career in veterinary medicine… the thought of being shoulder deep in the wrong end of a cow! Neil

Like other things in this category Neil – it's only a sin if you enjoy it!

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 25/08/2019 00:34:51:

Posted by Robin Graham on 24/08/2019 23:50:49:

[ … ]

I think MichaelG's second link answers my original question:

Toothpaste without abrasive particles

While you could theoretically forego using toothpaste when using a conventional toothbrush due to the brushing motion, using the special ultrasonic toothpaste for micro cleaning with emmi®-dent is a must. In contrast to standard products, our special toothpaste is free of abrasive particles that could permanently damage your teeth’s enamel. This is why ultrasonic toothbrushes not only prevent gum inflammation and periodontitis, but are perfect for people with sensitive gums or with pre-e

The first sentence seems to me almost meaningless. What follows suggests that the special quality of their toothpaste is that it's non-abrasive – nothing to do with ultrasound transmission, so I reckon gravy and dog slobber (thanks Adrian) should work.

.

[my emboldening]

… You seem to have omitted reference to the micro bubbles, Robin

…

MichaelG.

 

I did indeed Michael – I followed the link but wasn't quite sure what I was looking at. In the English translation the author says of his SEM image:

"it clearly shows the formation of micro bubbles which will implode in the process".

In my first read through I took 'formation' to mean 'bringing into being' rather than 'existing in a particular shape' as, for example, in 'a rock formation'. Then I realised that SEM could hardly capture cavitation on the timescale of a 1.6 THz oscillator. So the micro bubbles must be static features in the toothpaste. The only credible candidate in the ingredient list is hydrated silica. Further research is needed!

Johnnyboy25 – first thing I said to my wife when she suggested it, ultrasound, it'll drive the animal mad. But it seems these things work at much higher frequencies than dogs can hear.

XD 351 – dog was rescued from a bad place – we're just trying to get her back to the state of normal dogness where toothpaste and bogpaper are unnecessary.

Robin.

 

Edited By Robin Graham on 25/08/2019 23:16:57

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Robin Graham on 25/08/2019 23:11:28:

The only credible candidate in the ingredient list is hydrated silica. Further research is needed!

In a non-abrasive toothpaste? Shome mishtake shirley?

Plants have silca crystals in them as a defence against herbivores, which is why herbivore teeth don't stop growing with age…

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I did some digging-around yesterday, but couldn't find a specific research paper about the toothpaste.

Manfred Ruppel was the specialist SEM operator at Goethe: **LINK**

https://www.bio.uni-frankfurt.de/43227763/Über_M__Ruppel

and appears well-respected.

The image on the available copy of that confirmatory letter is difficult to interpret, but it is important to note the 300nm length of the scale bar: These are very small bubbles.

More if/when I can find anything 'technical'

MichaelG.

.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 26/08/2019 07:04:05

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