Turning Cartwheels

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Folks,

Excited by the springing into life of my Farm Boy engine, I'm minded to make a cart for it to sit on and rock gently back and forth when it's running.

I've been intrigued by the construction of this type of wheel (grabbed from the web)

The spokes and rim appears to be made from two adjacent strips of metal shaped like a Dairylea cheese triangle with a tyre fastened on with rivets.

I've seen them about at engine and agricultural shows in the UK but have not seen them on any videos of farm machinery in the US

Does anybody know if these were peculiar to any particular manufacturer?

Cheers,

Rod

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Wheel construction for an engine cart

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

That type of wheel construction was used by a few different engine makers, like those on this 6NHP Marshall portable.

Paul.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Paul,

That's really useful information. Lots of pictures on the web of Marshall portables with this type of wheel so I can get a better understanding of the construction.

Many thanks,

Rod

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

It would NOT be difficult to make a set of bending rolls to form the rim and the rest would be a simple fabrication job. The firm of Oliver Rix at Sculthorpe in Norfolk made wheels of this type from steel for their straw elevators into the 60s, I have some! Noel.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

And these on a Hornsby

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You just need to work out how you are going to cast the hub around the spokes now Rod for that authentic construction

I would think a hub made up of 3 parts would be easiest, the wider middle slotted to take the pairs of spoke ends and then a cover plate to go on each side, soldered or JBWelded together. The alternative may be to fire up your CNC and cut the six cutouts from say 6mm plate and run a vee tool down the middle of each spoke to fake the joint then add hub sides and rivit on a tyre from suitable tube or roll your own.

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

I have seen those sorts of wheels before but never thought about them till now. I have been watching EngelsCoachShop it's amazing how cartwheels are made. It just dawned on me that construction is so similar to a wooden cartwheel. The triangular sections are just a combined felloe and spoke. It could be that the hub is not cast around the spokes but the spokes are slotted into a hub, then a tire shrunk on to hold it all together.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I'm fairly sure most were cast around the spokes in much the same way that traction engine wheels were. Some of the smaller carts had all cast wheels often with a + section spoke. Those with round spokes tended to have then threaded into the hub and peined over on the outside of the rim once trued.

A lot will depend on what "scale" Rod wants his engine to be if thinking along the lines of an air cooled hired man which has the side fan like he intends to fit then the portable type wheels will probably be too big as the cart was more the size of a sack barrow. Even for a hand drawn 4 wheel cart they would be unlikely and only really suit a large horse drawn cat for a 5hp+ engine. Though artistic licence is allowed

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Here's the original picture I grabbed:

Smaller versions seem to work. Difficult to gauge the scale but I doubt that starting handle is more than 12" long. I caught a passing view of one used as set dressing on 'The Repair Shop' that looked like it was about 18" in diameter and makes me think that they were used on more general agricultural implements. I also guess that they may well have been re-purposed for a cart – farmers never throw anything away.

Rod

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I once had a 10hp Hornsby oil engine on this type of wheel and as I found they are very heavy and probably expensive to make at the time.Though no doubt they needed to be strong as many were exported and expected to stand up to hard colonial use . I assume your farm boy engine is a US style hit and miss engine ,the usual wheel for these had round steel spokes riveted at the rim,how they fitted in the hub I do not know ,never seen a broken one or been asked to repair one. though some people regard these engines as cheap and rough, the more popular ones eg Amanco (associated) were made in vast numbers at really competative prices and are the result of first class low cost production engineering so I doubt if the spokes were threaded in ,more likely just a tight fit and held in place by the rim.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Typical cart barrow for a small air cooled engine.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

You could fit the spokes into the holes in the hub and fit the rim last to hold it all together.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

International Harvester logo on the engine. American

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you are asking about the one I posted then it's and IHC (International Harvester Co) "Tom Thumb" engine from the US.

This is also an American, Asociated "chore Boy" 

This and this catalogue have a good range of carts to suit the various engines, the opening pages of the first show that a lot of these engines were quite small and power things that we would have an electric motor on now or maybe just a small Briggs etc.

 

Edited By JasonB on 17/05/2021 07:15:59

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Those of us who restore stationary engines build our trolleys using cast iron wheels from old barrows etc, a set of four wheels can now cost upwards of £60 to £70, as an alternative some enginemen make them out of large dia pipes to make the rims with a length of machined bar for the centre and smaller pieces of bar or flat stock as spokes.

Martin P

 

 

Edited By martin perman on 17/05/2021 11:12:01

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Thanks again for the input chaps and especially to Jason for those links. So far it seems that Marshalls, Hornsby and Boulton and Paul all seemed to use this form of wheel sometimes – all based in the east of England, I wonder if they outsourced them?

I've had a go at making my own so I 3D printed some fixtures (jigs?)

The hubs were sandwiched together with JB Weld

I made 2 sizes (50mm and 65MM diam.) with the idea of making a trolley with a steerable front axle but am coming round to using the smaller pair for a hand cart as in the Chore Boy illustration. The larger wheels were brush painted with straight to metal paint – horrible, will have to come off if I decide to use them

Cheers,

Rod

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Some lovely work there, congratulations Rod.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

They look the part Rod.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

Nice work,

It is a really nice, different way to make a flywheel that I hadn't considered before.

Phil H

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