TIG welder Regulator/Flowmeter

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

I have recently got myself a combi TIG welder, I still need to get an Argon bottle for it and a regulator. Local gas fillers only hire 6ft tall cylinders so I thought I'd buy a 10lt (2m3) cylinder and regulator. Not convinced the regulator they have is fit for TIG welding tho, it's a two gauge type one measuring high press and the other is the regulated pressure, but I want something which measures flow.

Had a look on the bay to see what's on offer but most flow regulator that come up look like cheap china stuff costing 20£ like this: **LINK**

Then I found these from a UK shop: **LINK** and **LINK**

Am I on the right track or are there better alternatives?

[ScrumpyParticipant @scrumpy]

Both will do the job but I would go with the U.K. One bottle pressure and regulated control then use the flow regulator for fine adjustment , I have that set up and find it perfect but make sure your bottle will except it as some will not clear the guard on top

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I agree with Scrumpy. The first one looks like it's a single stage regulator, while the second one is a two stage regulator, which will give you a finer and more stable regulation.

Regards Nick.

[Peter KroghParticipant @peterkrogh76576]

The one in your first link is the only type I have seen in common use here in shops. It's the type used on every set-up I've seen in the 50 years I've been welding.

It's everything needed in one package: a regulator to drop from 2000 psi bottle pressure to a few psi into the flow meter, then the flow meter to give fine control over the volume of gas.

Now, you don't really need to have a accurate measure of the volume as you should be setting the flow by feel. But it is the best if you can have a flow meter calibrated for the gas you are using. More important is that the bottle spud fit the bottle!!

A two stage regulator does not provide the fine control needed and is too expensive for the purpose.

Pete

I just went back to look at that listing. That looks like a very good unit and the price……wow.

 

Edited By Peter Krogh on 14/05/2017 01:34:23

[ScrumpyParticipant @scrumpy]

I slightly disagree with the above post re – flow control , As I spent 30+ years in high end engineering we used the flow control to regulate the purge on the inside of pipes this on stainless / gas /oil this on tig helped the weld to bead over giving a clean joint very little to clean up , Derek

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Thanks for the advice, will wait until I have the cylinder to make sure that whatever regulator I get will actually fit. The regulator I was offered costs around 70£ whilst most of the ones online were a fraction of that (granted there were one offs costing three figure numbers)

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

I used to do this for a living and will confirm all of Peters comments. I dont use a flow meter as an experienced welder simply doesnt need one. And how do they do them for the money?? Im a little confused by Scrumpy's comment as there is never anything to clean up on my tig welds, but then Im not working on an oil rig.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Chris,

Please don't waste your money on a 10lt.

I did the first time I got one of those 3-1 machines BUT it didn't last very long so replaced it with a 20lt bottle, have fitted peashooters on both the TIG and MIG bottles.

Geoff – Time to pull finger and make that spot welder as it's needed now!

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Posted by fizzy on 14/05/2017 09:54:45:

I used to do this for a living and will confirm all of Peters comments. I dont use a flow meter as an experienced welder simply doesnt need one. And how do they do them for the money?? Im a little confused by Scrumpy's comment as there is never anything to clean up on my tig welds, but then Im not working on an oil rig.

To be honest I have no experience whatsoever when it comes to TIG welding, the experience I have is with stick and oxyacetylene. Without some sort of flow metering I would probably empty the cylinder in a couple of hours!

Posted by OuBallie on 14/05/2017 10:01:15:

Chris,

Please don't waste your money on a 10lt.

I did the first time I got one of those 3-1 machines BUT it didn't last very long so replaced it with a 20lt bottle, have fitted peashooters on both the TIG and MIG bottles.

Geoff – Time to pull finger and make that spot welder as it's needed now!

The problem is that the local gas supplier (I'm not in the UK) will either sell 10L (2m3) bottles or else hire a larger 6ft tall (10m3) bottle, which will make transporting it a pain (won't fit in my car). I was thinking that a 2m3 bottle if used with a flow of 5L/m would last approx 6hrs continuous use, which I thought would be reasonable as the use for it is for one off' jobs…now if I could find a 20L bottle I would consider it, but most I could find online are for rent or with a deposit, not for export…

[ScrumpyParticipant @scrumpy]

As the post said TIG welder , I will explain what happens in the food and oil/ gas industry for pipe welding for pipes up to three ins when it has to be welded by hand. most are machine welded today,

First shanfer the pipe,then set the gap, seal one end of the pipe , connecting the other end to the flow control and sealing so that gas can only escape through the gap, as you start to TIG weld using a filler rod if required you will see a bead form on the inside as the arc will use the gas from inside leaving a smooth surface just as the outside and no cleaning up .

If you are welding farm gates car body's why use Tig with argon .

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, Scrumpy is correct, the food industry is very particular with welding, even with St/St. and yes the pipes that are welded have to be purged just the way he has described. This is one area where a two stage regulator excels, as the same gas supplies both the purge and the welding torch and flow regulation is critical. The thing about single stage regulators is, that as the cylinder pressure drops, the output varies and more so as the cylinder gets lower in volume. ChrisB, I think a single stage regulator should be OK for your needs though. Sorry Fizzy, but I believe a good professional TIG welder will always use a flow meter, especially for good gas economy if nothing else.

Regards Nick

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

I'm not going to earn a living off welding, it's just for that odd job and hobby use so useless buying an expensive machine. I went for this :**LINK** mainly because it had the stick and plasma function, TIG was a bonus and once it is there I want to learn how to use it. I'm not going to be fabricating any race car manifolds or the likes…not just yet

The welding set came with a basic regulator (it's shown on one of the pictures in the link) but it's so basic I don't want to use it, that's why I started the thread – if both regulators I linked are fine then all the better – I don't need to spend a lot (contrary to what I was assuming)

Edited By ChrisB on 14/05/2017 18:54:46

Edited By ChrisB on 14/05/2017 18:56:36

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

The regulator supplied is for the compressed air that is used by the plasma cutter .

Both of the regulators in your original post essentially do the same thing , drop the bottle pressure and allow you to control the flow rate .

The first one has the ball type flow gauge which is preferred as it is more reliable in the long run – those cheap needle gauges on the second gauge set can stick and jam up but the ball bearing in the tube is lifted by the actual flow of gas and has no moving parts to jam up . Both have bottle presure gauges that allow you to see when your bottle is just about empty , i have had these gauges fail as well but the regulator can still be used without it as long as the flow gauge is working .

It is worth the extra money to but a decent quality gauge set – it doesn't need to be top of the range but i would avoid buying a dirt cheap set . You will more than likely find both those gauge sets are made in china like just about everything else .

The bonus is you can use the same gauge on a mig welder as well .

Its ok to say a good welder working for a company can listen to the gas flow and know whether it is not set correctly when he or she doesn't have to buy the stuff ! When you are learning it makes life much easier to be to set the flow on a gauge rather than guessing it .

Take a look at these two youtube sites , you will learn something from them i'm sure :

Welding tips and tricks

Weld . Com .

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

 

Posted by XD 351 on 14/05/2017 19:33:25:

The regulator supplied is for the compressed air that is used by the plasma cutter .

I see, still will not use it, for the plasma will connect it directly to the air compressor which has a regulator on it.

Thanks for the tips, I've followed quite a few – so much to learn!

Posted by OuBallie on 14/05/2017 10:01:15:

Chris,

Please don't waste your money on a 10lt.

I did the first time I got one of those 3-1 machines BUT it didn't last very long so replaced it with a 20lt bottle, have fitted peashooters on both the TIG and MIG bottles.

While trawling the net I came across a shop in Germany – they have 20L Argon bottles for sale at 190€ filled and delivered to Malta : **LINK** , from the local gas shop a 10L bottle cost 160€ filled, so for 30€ difference I think it's worth going for.

Edited By ChrisB on 15/05/2017 10:33:28

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

The idea with having a regulator which is usually mounted to the machine with a bracket is so you can set it up for the optimal pressure for the plasma cutter and leave the regulator on your compressor set to what you use around the shop , it just saves the hassle of changing regulator settings all the time .

I have a little cardboard slide rule type reference guide from Boc that i have found useful for setting up my tig , you may be able to get one where you are or from ebay .

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

That would be correct for a dedicated plasma cutter, but as the machine is a combi TIG,plasma,MMA it uses the same gas inlet for both plasma and TIG. So for example plasma will need a pressure of around 6-7bar compressed air (which is what I normally set my compressor at) On the other hand for Tig welding will need around 5/6Lpm, so I cannot use the supplied regulator for that as it does not measure flow.

Thinking about it I could fit a T-fitting with two on/off valves at the inlet, one for Argon and one for compressed air, that way I don't have to switch the hoses from argon to air.

Another thing, in my post above I linked a 20L bottle and I'm tempted to go for it, but do you think it is at all possible to ship a Full Argon bottle for 13Euro? I mean, it's a compressed gas, is it considered a dangerous goods? I emailed them to confirm if the rates are correct…

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Update: So in the end I had to settle for a 10Lt cylinder ( the only size available locally apart from the larger 50Lt ones) as no one would deliver from the continent – apparently even an empty bottle is classed as dangerous goods Anyway, I also ordered a regulator and flow meter which arrived this morning. Surprise, surprise the regulator will not fit the bottle! The male threaded union on the regulator will engage on the thread of the bottle valve but with a very loose fit. The regulator is this **LINK** from what I can understand the thread on this is 5/8bsp. No idea what's the thread on the cylinder valve tho.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi ChrisB, the regulator that you have, most likely has got a 5/8" BSP parallel thread on the cylinder connection, certainly if it was made for the UK market in mined.

Regards Nick.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

That's what I think, I bought it from the UK and measuring the thread it's close to 5/8Bsp so it should be.

The problem is the thread on the cylinder valve, it's close to 5/8Bsp but slightly larger. On the valve there were some markings and number but googling them didn't yield any meaning ful results. This is what's on the valve:

ISO V

WP200BAR AR He

16-04/134

25E

1370

352

Made in Italy

As it's got made in Italy on it I'm assuming its built to a different standard? I need to identify the thread on the cylinder and try to find an adapter or a new regulator

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Europe uses BSP but specify it as "G" thread

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

But isn't the BSP and G thread one and the same? The one on the cylinder valve was very close to 5/8bsp, infact the regulator 5/8 thread did engage but was too wobbly… it must be some thread which is very close, I'll try to measure it.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I was commenting on the fact you said it must be different as it was Italian (on the valve)

Don't know what they use on teh cylinders. Threads are often quite free as it is the ball end that seals not the thread

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Try this PDF it gives the threads used in several countries, so may have the source country of your cylinder there

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

This may be the problem. Looking at the number 6 Din 477 connector the joint is sealed by a washer between flat faces, a UK connector has a rounded male end that makes a metal to metal seal. Both threads are the same as 21.7 is teh OD of teh thread and 1/14" is 14tpi

Edited By JasonB on 26/06/2017 19:01:32

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