The sneering detractors

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

This is a brilliant site which I look at sometimes although I'm not a model enthusiast. There's usually something to learn or laugh at and it's peopled by characters similar to myself who are mostly decent, kind and helpful.

 

The only 'con' of this site is the 'Model Engineering Police', or as I think of them; the sneering detractors. These are people who get their emotional inputs by a snarling abusive venting of their spleens, often hidden in sarcasm and dusted with smugness, by rubbishing the efforts of others. They actually do so at a cost of depleting and reducing the stature of this otherwise great site, and of course, they rarely let others see and judge their own abilities, or lack thereof.

 

Regular viewers will have seen the topic on making a milling spindle, in which the OP linked to the Youtube video of Steve Jordan, in which he showed his attempt to build such a spindle. Steve Jordan has long been a target here for the sneering detractors so I guessed what was coming,…so I was not surprised when the snarling started…….

 

I don't know Steve Jordan personally, have never met or spoken to him,…never exchanged emails with him….never, as yet, made any of his items and don't really expect to…..I look at his videos from time to time to see what he is up to and like some of his ideas and possibilities. As far as I know he is not a user/follower of this site, but he might well be because he is basically doing what many people here do, namely, pushing aside the stresses of life by retiring to his small workshop and making things. He started with a Chinese mini-lathe and now also has a Myford gifted by his brother.

 

Also like many here he appears to have modest means and struggles with poor mental and physical health. He puts up his videos so that other people also in sheds and basements with a small lathe and drilling machine can watch his, sometimes quaint, methods and see a way for their own efforts…..

 

And thus, to the sneering detractors themselves;….if you don't have the basic decency and manners to make comments helpful and constructive with a dash of kindness then do the honourable thing and POST YOUR OWN BETTER VIDEO TO SHOW HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE BY SUCH A SUPERIOR ABILITY…..other wise, keep you heads below the parapet and stay quiet!…PLEASE! because you are not helping this site or the people that follow it.

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 21/05/2020 13:38:28

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Well said Bob. It's a shame that these people inhabit our world and that they may put off many beginners from becoming involved.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

At the bottom of each post there's a link titled 'ignore member' all you have to do is use it. and you'll never see a post from them ever again.

[Sam SpoonsParticipant @samspoons83065]

+1 I'm a recent new member and will probably be an irregular visitor as I am not a model maker either. I have a Boxford partly just for the hell of it and partly for just fiddling and making small items along the way.

I have had some great, friendly help and advice here in the short time I have been a member and have not yet come across the sort of thing Bob writes about but I know it will exist. 'Sneering detractors' inhabit all forums and TBH I have visited much worse ones than this (usually no more than twice…..) but the premise "if you can't say something nice than don't say anything at all" is a good one to follow. I'm fairly thick skinned but anybody posting should consider those who are, maybe, more fragile, especially in these strange times when even the most robust personality is likely to be feeling some self-doubt.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Posted by Brian H on 21/05/2020 13:44:52:

Well said Bob. It's a shame that these people inhabit our world and that they may put off many beginners from becoming involved.

I'll second that

H

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I never really notice much negative in here, it's very civilised and tolerant in this place

Out on the netty it's a jungle, I ceased all contact with any human in any manner or form on the world of tanks site within 24 hours of joining and starting to play

That was well over a year ago, I still play every day though

omg they're horrible to each other, it's like primary three stuff meets lord of the flies

Little boys are made of frogs and snails and puppy dogs tails

Edited By Ady1 on 21/05/2020 14:19:26

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

This is a tricky one!

Surely we know that the Internet has serious quality problems? A fair percentage of material published on the web is unbalanced. Well-meaning or not, it's littered with mistakes, misunderstandings, naiveties, incompetence, Payola, faulty logic, safety hazards, and fake news. Some youtube videos containing good advice are unwatchable due to poor presentation, whilst others are convincingly slick but plain wrong. It's often hard to tell the difference between beginners blundering along as they learn from whizz-kids who really knows their stuff.

So what should forum members do about flawed information on the web? Personally I think it wrong to pretend all is well. An engineering hobby is about best practice and truth, not covering up because we like people, or admire their enthusiasm. No reason not to be polite though.

In that spirit I try to be clear it's the engineering I criticise, not the individuals! Personally I positively welcome being corrected because I get stuff wrong and misspeak rather more than I like. An important advantage of the forum is peer review. If I stick a carp video on the web, innocents will fall for it. If I post poor stuff here, there are several capable of putting me right and willing to do so. Well done them, because forum quality is all the better for it! Sad my ego is so badly bruised I often cry myself to sleep, but the end justifies the means.

Can't comment on Steve Jordan's work – never watched any of his videos.

Dave

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Yes there are a couple of smug, snide people on the forum, but I long ago used the "ignore member button", so I don't get troubled with them any more.

Andrew.

[Sam SpoonsParticipant @samspoons83065]

All valid points Dave, and I agree. 'Quality control' (which nobody is going to be offended by if worded well) is I think a different matter. I suspect the people Bob is concerned about are not concerned with QC…..

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

My perception of the Forum, when I joined, was that it was a place for social contact, a means of sharing a mutual interest in the various aspects of Engineering, and a place to seek or give help.

None of us know all about everything, so the know-alls, and smart alecs deserve the "Ignore member" button.

Sadly, there are those who merit such treatment. As yet, I have yet to use to it, but sadly one or two have come VERY close.

Otherwise, the Forum is a great place to visit, with so much of interest, even if not of immediate use.

I am not going to rebuild a Harrison or a Colchester, nor make a clock, but reading of how others go about it is of great interest.

My advice? Ignore the self opinionated "experts", and enjoy the freely given information and the banter.

This is almost a global Club for those interested in all aspects.of Engineering. We all have something to offer and something to learn (even if only not to rely on my memory! )

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 21/05/2020 15:25:30

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

S.O.D. I’ve been involved with local history for some years + as an offshoot connection with many into Family History tho that’s not my thing – one thing that became apparent as the web became democratised was the ability to neophytes to jump in with both left feet and put incorrect research into places where it became accepted as true by those too quick to accept it as valid – more careful researchers tended to include significant caveats where any ‘guesswork’ was concerned – trying to correct the posting of these enthusiastic newcomers was always difficult

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

I Have to agree with Dave (SOD) and Frances. We can't just ignore the bad stuff, certainly not the dangerous. No single person knows everthing or is always correct. Like dave I'm happy to be corrected or enter ino a civilised technical discussion. I probably come over as a bit of a health and safety concerned person, but I've no problem with people setting their own acceptable level of safety as long as it does not affect others. I certainly do things in my home workshop that I would never suggest others do, and some I would not even tell anone I'd done
It is a difficult balance but my view is make sure peopel know that you have concerns and then let them decide for them seves.
I know I frequently annoyed a couple of people on a automotive forum because I would add a "don't forget it's illegal" post to any thread advocating LED replacment bulbs for exterior lights (OK for reversing lights odly) or disabling emissions systems. that didn't make it clear. Similar viewpoint, let readers know the techncal issue and decide for themselves. No need to rant or be rude.

Robert G8RPI.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Dave Halford on 21/05/2020 13:52:31:

At the bottom of each post there's a link titled 'ignore member' all you have to do is use it. and you'll never see a post from them ever again.

All very well, but I would not do that because no matter how snide and sneering people are because of their 'greater experience' and 'superior knowledge' they may well be more experienced (hard not to be) and finer engineers than me so I can hopefully learn from some of what they are saying, while trying to ignore the manner in which they say it.

I genuinely find such comments distasteful in the extreme, but I hope I always remain keen to pick out the good bits behind them.

Nick

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

A phrase has evolved into common parlance, in our household, of late.

"I saw it on the internet, so it must be true."

Attributed,to any piece of information of doubtful veracity and/or origin.

ATB,

Daniel

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

I believe that it is your duty to point out bad or dangerous practices, especially on Youtube. Some people believe that content at any cost is the way to go. That's fine for funny cat videos but not so good when the uninitiated watch popular content providers using practices that make sense to them not realising that they are entirely unsuitable.

How you go about it is another matter.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Daniel,

I thought that anything appearing on a computer screen or print out was true?.

Removes tongue from cheek

Howard

[Brian Baker 2Participant @brianbaker2]

Greetings, I think Sam Spoons has it right, "if you cann't say any thing nice about someone, donn't say any thing at all".

Brian

University of Youtube

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by Ady1 on 21/05/2020 14:11:33:

Little boys are made of frogs and snails and puppy dogs tails

Good, protein-rich stuff that. Far better for you than Sugar and Spice and all things which rot your teeth and promote type 2 diabetes!

George B.

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

You are not alone

[Mike JosephParticipant @mikejoseph75242]

A good mate said to me once about the carpers: 'Just ask them what they have made recently'

Usually works.

Sometime ago I posted a query about getting water up a hill to a hospital in a 3rd World country and was overwelmed by the thoughtfulness and helpfulness of the replies – over 50 of them!

Don't give up, there are a lot of good [people out there.

Mike

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Hi all

I like this forum for the range of threads, questions and discussions which come up. There seem to be less idiots, personal detractors and ego trippers on here than most forums, and most users seem to be trying to learn or trying to assist or inform.

I am sometimes amused or amazed by the specialist expertise of some of the contributors. I can't think of an example at the moment but sometimes there is a question or situation which is a little unusual and various contributors have a go at answering or guessing from general engineering knowledge – and then someone comes along and really spells it out from what is clearly a deep and expert knowledge of just that particular field. It's like a sporting event where a "dark horse" just appears and laps the field. And we all learn a lot more about the subject.

And the ego trippers and general grousers, the thin-skinned and the (think they) know-it-alls just have to be ignored. If we don't rise to them perhaps thay will go away and play elsewhere.

Rod

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It is a fair point that we sometimes get videos linked to that show poor machining practice.

What I find out about that one of Steve Jordan's is he spends some time saying how dangerous it is to machine a long workpiece without a steady and then proceeds to ignore his own advice, drilling and boring it out without any support.

I do think he probably wasn't pushing too hard, but a beginner might well set to work with higher speeds or deeper cuts and come to grief. So I think it was fair to draw attention to that point as the inexperienced do rely on such videos for guidance.

Neil

(I haven't made any videos of me doing such things, but I do write articles and books for beginners and try to instil some sense about safety without treating people like idiots).

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Dave Halford on 21/05/2020 13:52:31:

At the bottom of each post there's a link titled 'ignore member' all you have to do is use it. and you'll never see a post from them ever again.

 

… except every time they are quoted.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 22/05/2020 01:15:53

[Author]

Posts