The Decline of Model Engeneering Workshop

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

The Decline of Model Engeneering Workshop

Model Engineer and Model Engineering Workshop has now been amalgamated into just one entity. Is this because there are less people interested in engineering and have found other hobbies ?

Recent posts on this site are now talking about painting houses, blueberries and heat pumps which have nothing to do with model engineering. There are other sites for these subjects.

Is ME&W now to be renamed MEWHG (Model Engineer, Worksop, House & Garden) ????

If this site is to remain, please keep the content about engineering or some patrons may lose interest and it will disappear like some other sites.

Just my opinion (who else agrees ?),  Paul

 

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Not me, for one.  I think that you will find that the subjects which you quote as non-engineering are posted in the “Tea room” section.  A perfectly acceptable place to raise such questions in my opinion.  No “talking shop” in those sorts of places, I would imagine – I have never worked in such an environment.

Oh and by the way, as far as I know, the magazine was not called Model Engineering Workshop (or Worksop) it was always “Engineers’ “.

John

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

The two magazines have returned to something rather as “Model Engineer” alone used to be, once it had dropped the “& Electrician” from its title aeons ago. Give it a bit of time to bed in!

 

Regarding this site, we do have interests and lives alongside model-engineering, and the “Tea-room” is an apt place for discussing those. Do the lunch-breaks or tea-and-natter sessions within your model-engineering society gatherings stick to arguing carbide-v-HSS and how to design blast-pipes? I’d be surprised if they do!

Actually my own club does more gardening than engineering on its site – as we do joke self-deprecatingly about – but most of our metalworking is at home in our own workshops; and we use the club site with its railways and lots of room for traction-engines to operate or display our creative efforts.

Most of this web-site IS shop-talk and obviously so by the separate Forum titles; but most of us do enjoy some relief now and then from that.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I did not realize it was posted in the tea room.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

I don’t agree either, for two reasons:

1. There aren’t two forum members/subscribers who can agree what Model Engineering actually includes. It’s a terrible term for what many of us do.

 

2. Forums that do restrict their content like that are mind numbingly dull. The rare posts tend to be either a new member whose voice is drowned by the echoing silence, or posts that continue an argument that was started in the fifth ever post decades ago and continued by three long term members with four opposing views.***

 

 

*** yes, I know, four doesn’t go into three. But the whole thing got so dogmatic that the three regularly assume Cranky Cyril’s arguments since he died.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Paul,

Paul, I don’t fundamentally disagree with you.  Just looked and out of the 25 latest replies, 6 were under the tea room heading so just shy of 25% of latest responses are under that theme.  Tea room posts on here often concentrate on stuff that I would expect to find on Facebook from my limited experience of that medium and the reason I don’t engage with it.  90% of posts on TT are restricted to road steam / events and I don’t find that mind numbingly dull, it’s the subject matter I expect to find there and why I visit..  I like to see what people are doing and how they are doing it, hoping to learn from their experience, learn about the history of the stuff they are working on, how manufacturers approached various issues etc.  I visit TT every day, seldom look here.  Maybe Tea Room should feature in the title?

Can’t speak for the book, haven’t bought it for years.

Paul.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Hi Paul. I didn’t see that the posts were from the tea room and maybe overreacted but I have noticed that there are more posts going off on a tangent from what the original post was about. Viewers do not read the whole storey before posting a comment. Maybe I am just getting more critical. (apparently it happens as you get older and lose your inabitions)

 

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

I have some sympathy, Paul, the answer of course is to try and steer content back on track with comment or material, even if it’s a quick photo & couple of lines in ‘What Did You Do Today’..

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Thanks Diogenes (I assume not your real name). Spent some time in the workshop, finishing off some tooling to make life easier. Will post later when complete. Cheers.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As I said in the Kelsey thread and I’ve said elsewhere anyone wanting a forum on making models which is the heart of “Model Engineering” is not that well served by this one.

Of 25 latest posts Dean’s 24cc engine is the only one about making a model and there is little other comment in that apart from his own posts, something I find with my builds too where they seem to create less interest than the latest windows rant of spam email.

On the other hand somewhere like MEM is far more foucused. 80% of new posts overnight were in build threads,10% a new member and 10% someone showing a new bit of tooling. You will find similar figures on HMEM too. They both have tea room type sections but they get used far less as the members seem to actually be doing what their forum names suggest M. ENGINE MAKER and H. MODEL ENGINE MACHINIST

When the powers above use forum activity figures to try and get ads and upgrades in software they don’t care about what the post are about just the numbers so quantity wins over quality.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The big advantage of posting on things like heat pumps in this forums “tea room” is that any responses will come form people with at least a passing interest in engineering. Not something you can say about most social medis sites…….

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Paul is “not wrong”!  It’s clear to me that “Model Engineering”, whatever that is, is in decline.

As hobbies go, Model Engineering is a major commitment, and that’s a problem.  Time, money, space, skills, and understanding are all in short supply.

When I was born, the world was very different. Manufactured goods were expensive, creating a strong incentive to make and repair.  I travelled on steam trains and trolley buses.  Push-bikes and motorbikes rather than cars.  Few homes had telephones or central heating, and outside toilets weren’t unusual.   TV sets extremely expensive, only one channel, in 405 line black and white. Not many owned a car, not much spare cash, foreign holidays unlikely etc.   That meant an excess of spare time.   One way of filling the vacuum was a home-workshop, making and repairing “things”.   Eighty years ago, of the technical hobbies, Model Engineering had little to compete with other than woodwork, clocks, photography, amateur radio, DIY, microscopy, boats, RC aircraft, and astronomy.

All change!  In 2025 we have a multitude of time-fillers.  Hundreds of TV channels plus streaming services.   Computers.  Cheap travel.   Electronics.  Maker activities.   A huge list of interests that eat time and don’t require a workshop!  Another problem is that modern houses are tiny and their gardens have no room for a shed.   The internet dropped a bomb on print media, so Newsagents are closing and magazines are struggling.  Many complex factors.

I conclude Model Engineering has to adapt or die.  Though serious today, not a new problem. My collection of ME mags clearly show content changing decade by decade to suit the needs of the day.   The idea that Model Engineering is building steam locos using traditional methods is relatively modern, so we shouldn’t get hung up on it, or anything else.

The forum supports “Model Engineering” in the broadest sense (Arduino to Zyto) and allows ‘tea room’.   Much good in broadness, though it encourages thread drift, which is both fruitful and annoying.  It means topics have to be read carefully end to end, and not dipped into.  The forum is an excellent source of advice, but not a good reference.   However, I prefer our informality to a strictly moderated fora.   For example, on StackExchange relevance is judged, posts are up and down voted, discussions squashed, and newbies required to prove competence rather than allowed to hold forth immediately.  Even if they are an expert!  StackExchange isn’t welcoming and their heavy handed moderators often make mistakes.  I often find Google’s top answer to my programming questions are squashed because Attila the Moderator thought it was a Duplicate, when it’s not!  Or because he misunderstood the question.

Whilst Paul ‘s critique makes sense, others see it differently. It’s about balance and I don’t know what that is! Helps to know what members think, and particularly why they think it.   Paul explains ‘why’, so thanks!

Dave

 

 

 

 

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

I personally think the Tea Room is overused some by those that don’t post much or even any model engineering projects. If you want to know about Blue berries then go to a gardening forum or painting houses go to a decorating forum. No, but instead of that, as soon as someone put a post about building a Loco they are quickly told to go to another forum.

No wonder those that may be interested in Model Engineering don’t look in here when they see the rubbish that is put in the over used tearoom.

As I said that is my personal opinion and it offends then tough.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Paul is right to a point, though the tea room is the place for off topic talk and for those who want to read such offerings thats fine. I have not read the house painting thread and I often don’t read threads that I feel won’t interest me. If numbers will save this forum then thats fine by me. Each to their own ! Noel.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, in the new/latest replies list, the destination of the reply is shown under the topic on the left hand side, i.e. both house panting and blueberries are posted in the Tea Room, so if they don’t interest you, why would you look at them, as you probably know they are probably not connected directly to engineering, but if you do look at them and think it’s rubbish, just move on, as you are not obliged to read everything. Myself I just think it’s like day to day chat between workmates in any working environment.

Regards Nick.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The Tea Room is specifically labelled as being for items not specific to model engineering.

Personally, I would rather do without items on house painting, although those the sort of subjects that might be raised over a coffee.

I regret the passing of Model Engineer’s Workshop. That was the magazine that brought me into the hobby, and the first editor, Stan Bray, became a friend.

But another similar magazine went to the wall, as have all the shows except one.  A sign of the time, austerity, and the failure to realise the importance of actually making things.

So we must move with the times, and be grateful that there is still a magazine that caters for our interests, and this Forum associated with it.

Howard

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

In the past it was easy to start and print a magazine that publishing houses kept creating specialist ones – one for each car type, motorbike etc. That drove the splitting of the general ME mag into multiple ones for boats, clocks, EIM, MEW but there are limits on time to read and money to subscribe. It was really annoying to have chunks of content drawn away.
Recently creating a forum has been too easy so the same has happened. Lots of people wanting to be the king with their own forum. It is really annoying that content is taken off to specialist forums, each with a different format and some a bit precious about letting you join on a casual basis. The community would be much better served if that TT and MEM content were in one place.

I think the ME hobby is actually expanding as people move back to smaller gauges and 3D printing. Unfortunately too many are obsessed with Facebook which is a really bad interface for instruction and getting answers from experienced machinists. I suggest every time you contribute to FB you point to a proper forum.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

This post might belong in the other topic, but Bazyle’s comments about specialisation when combined with Jason’s data on posts from MEM and HMEM struck a chord. I have a very old cartoon which I used to use when teaching.

I wouldn’t consider myself a model maker (albeit I am making a model of a tower clock), and even less of a model engine maker so I would be unlikely to deliberately frequent either of MEM or HMEM. I guess what I am is a hobby engineer. I don’t see myself as a “manufacturer” building things to other people’s drawings. What I enjoy ( as I said elsewhere) is “creating”, love a challenge and get a buzz from succeeding, particularly at something I have never done before so I make unnecessary but satisfyingly challenging useful(?) things.

What I like about this place – the magazine, forums and the archive is it’s breadth. The range of different things that get asked, discussed and demonstrated provide me with the thing I value most – ideas. Ideas for things I might want to make, ideas about how to do particular things, ideas for methods and tools. Those ideas come from many different directions and sources. It’s the serendipity that comes from a broad outlook that adds the most value.

I don’t agree with Dave (SOD) I don’t think hobby engineering is declining, in fact I would have said it is expanding – just not the making of steam engines from metal, although I suspect that has always been a minority hobby. If you consider the range of people using 3D printers, writing code for Arduinos and their ilk, building robots, making RC cars, boats, planes, drones etc. the numbers must be huge.

But the process used is changing. In the same way that manufacturing has changed from a craft industry making the bits needed to a more procurement/assembly process, amateur engineering is moving the same way.

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

This place is like a friendly pint at the pub after work.We don’t know where things will end up, working through a problem with the parts made or scrapped at work that day, or talking about the chore of painting the house when We get home. Friendly banter uses a broad avenue.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I suggest there is a fundamental flaw in the OP’s argument that ME&W (and its past incarnations ME and MEW) is in decline based on the posts on this forum. The flaw being that it would seem that a good proportion, probably the majority of the posts are written by people who do not subscribe to the magazine. Therefore the forum is not per se representative of the magazine and it’s readership.

 

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

A fair comment Martin. I subscribe to both magazines and have done so to MEW for 15+ years. It would be interesting to know who else has.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

ME since about 1987, and MEW up to about 312. Noel.

[Paul Lousick]

On Paul Lousick Said:

A fair comment Martin. I subscribe to both magazines and have done so to MEW for 15+ years. It would be interesting to know who else has.

I was a long-term MEW subscriber, and now subscribe to ME&W

That makes absolutely no difference to the fact that I enjoy this forum … Tea-Room discussions and all.

MichaelG.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I’ve been getting ME since the early 1970s and at one time had built up a collection going back to1950. There have always been highs and lows. Times change,in the 50s, 60s, 70s if you wanted a 5 inch gauge loco you had to assemble a workshop and make one. The chaps who did that are shuffling off this mortal coil so now if you want a loco, it makes sense to buy one. Repetitive multipart series by Don Young, Martin Evans et al are no longer going to attract the punter. That’s not to say that people are not interested in making things, the trick is to find out what that interest is.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I started buying both ME & MEW in October 1992, had them saved at WH Smith’s until I took out a subscription, but can’t remember when my subscription started, but has been most of the time of buying both of those magazines. I also got all the previous MEW’s by buying back issues at a few of the exhibitions, and via ebay, also got many previous volumes of ME from various sources, and some of the early 30’s & 40’s issues were those that my father bought.

Regards Nick.

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