Take a look?

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

There seems to be a bit of confusion in this thread as to what needs to be or must not be CE marked.

As I understand it no boiler under 2 litres of any rated pressure is covered by Directive 97/23/CE and therefore must not be CE marked.

Boilers over 2 litres and up to 50 bar.litres and intended to be sold must be CE marked but can be controlled, tested, and certified by the constructor who must supply a declaration of conformity, test report, etc.

Only boilers over 50 bar.litres must be tested by an independent notified body.

This is, of course, all based on EU regulations. What will happen after Brexit is anybody's guess.

Good luck with your venture Chris.

Russell.

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 28/12/2016 15:40:43:

As I understand it no boiler under 2 litres of any rated pressure is covered by Directive 97/23/CE and therefore must not be CE marked.

As I understand it any product, whether there is an EU directive covering it or not, may be CE marked to indicate it's conformity to the standards the manufacturer chooses to use in it's manufacture.

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by John Stevenson on 28/12/2016 12:43:25:

Chris Lyall has nothing to fear from the armchair warriors on this forum.

NONE of them will EVER be a customer. For a start most are too tight to even buy a pair of shoes so they can go into the workshop, slippers are far cheaper.

Those that can do it and enjoy it will do it.

Anyone who wants a boiler and is serious will be looking at the various builders.

The rest will just be polishing the welds on the keyboard where it attaches to the armchair.

Don't forget the swarf John. Lots n lots of piccys of swarf.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It's obviously a vehicle for advertising their own services, but this is a useful reference: **LINK**

http://www.conformance.co.uk/cemarking/basics.php

MichaelG.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Mick Charity on 28/12/2016 16:17:37:

Lots n lots of piccys of swarf.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by Nick Hulme on 28/12/2016 16:01:51

As I understand it any product, whether there is an EU directive covering it or not, may be CE marked to indicate it's conformity to the standards the manufacturer chooses to use in it's manufacture.

Not quite. CE marking is supposed to indicate compliance with all relevant EU directives. The application of 'harmonised standards' is one route to compliance with directives.

Also note there are some oddities – items categorised as 'SEP' by the Pressure Equipment Directive must not be CE marked, even though they are within the scope of the directive.

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 28/12/2016 16:28:34:

Posted by Mick Charity on 28/12/2016 16:17:37:

Lots n lots of piccys of swarf.

Looks like mere chips to me !

You obviously do not know what you're doing with such a machine. If used correctly the swarf shall flow with a uniform spiral of not less than 3x per inch & certainly not more than 15x per inch. Please consult your nearest internets for the correct speeds & feeds we want you to use

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by David Jupp on 28/12/2016 16:36:32:

Posted by Nick Hulme on 28/12/2016 16:01:51

As I understand it any product, whether there is an EU directive covering it or not, may be CE marked to indicate it's conformity to the standards the manufacturer chooses to use in it's manufacture.

Not quite. CE marking is supposed to indicate compliance with all relevant EU directives. The application of 'harmonised standards' is one route to compliance with directives.

Also note there are some oddities – items categorised as 'SEP' by the Pressure Equipment Directive must not be CE marked, even though they are within the scope of the directive.

But in this case reading this –

This Directive (2014/68/EU) applies to the design, manufacture and conformity assessment of pressure equipment and assemblies with a maximum allowable pressure greater than 0.5 bar gauge including vessels, piping, safety accessories and pressure accessories. Not all pressure equipment is covered by this directive as The Transportable Pressure Equipment Directive and the Simple Pressure Vessels Directive both cover certain equipment and products which present a relatively low hazard from pressurization are covered by the Machinery Directive.

Seems there's a driective for almost everything if you look hard enough though.

 

P.S. Bucket of Swarf

And as it was also part of my morning's production – Full English!

All my own work BTW

Edited By Nick Hulme on 28/12/2016 17:01:51

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Swarf ????????

That;s not swarf…………….

THIS IS SWARF

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hmm…

Serious thread drift methinks.

One of the potentially most daunting prospects in building a miniature loco is silver soldering up a copper boiler.

There really ought to be a serious focused debate on this issue.

I was very fortunate to have passed onto me when a teenager how to deal with making a silver soldered copper boiler by very experienced miniature loco builders and model engineers. That was over 30 years ago.

For my first boiler, I did as I was told, and was naive and keen and that loco is still running with the same boiler.

Cheers,

Julian

[Anonymous]

Posted by Mick Charity on 28/12/2016 16:40:16:

You obviously do not know what you're doing with such a machine. If used correctly the swarf shall flow with a uniform spiral of not less than 3x per inch & certainly not more than 15x per inch. Please consult your nearest internets for the correct speeds & feeds we want you to use

Ah well, back to the armchair, and no more using rippa mills.

Andrew

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I'd like to see some proof that things that don't need to have a ce mark shouldn't have one.

What I suspect is needed is a book called something like " A Guide To Steam Boiler Regulations for Model Engineers ". It seems it should also contain some design aspects as certain things seem to be verbotem.

I suspect it would have to be written by some august body not directly related to model engineering in order to ensure that it's ok.

John

–

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Ajohnw on 29/12/2016 13:13:49:

I'd like to see some proof that things that don't need to have a ce mark shouldn't have one.

What I suspect is needed is a book called something like " A Guide To Steam Boiler Regulations for Model Engineers ". It seems it should also contain some design aspects as certain things seem to be verbotem.

I suspect it would have to be written by some august body not directly related to model engineering in order to ensure that it's ok.

John

–

That's a brilliant idea, I'm surprised nobody has thought of it already!

I might write it myself, but if I do, I think I might call it 'The Examination & Testing of Miniature Steam Boilers' .

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

LOL

ROTFLMAO

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Ajohnw on 29/12/2016 13:13:49:

It seems it should also contain some design aspects as certain things seem to be verbotem.

–

There is an Aussie who has got that bit covered too

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by Ajohnw on 29/12/2016 13:13:49:

verbotem.

Should that be read Verboten or Verbatim?

– Nick

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

M is close to N.

I was aware of an Oz web site but did wonder if he had it all correct. That's the problem.

Examination and Testing ………………. – compulsory reading for boiler inspectors maybe – pretty pointless. Even building inspectors opinions can vary. It would need to cover what can be done and by who, how to do it, sums and everything else related as well.

John

–

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Have you read it or has your keyboard got diarrhea again ?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Ajohnw on 29/12/2016 16:29:17:

I was aware of an Oz web site but did wonder if he had it all correct. That's the problem.

No not one persons web site, AMBSC boiler codes, a good read.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by John Stevenson on 29/12/2016 16:33:12:

Have you read it or has your keyboard got diarrhea again ?

Yes I had and just did so again. Inadequate and uses the word opinion and some strength aspects that also come across as opinion.

John

–

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by Ajohnw on 29/12/2016 13:13:49:

I'd like to see some proof that things that don't need to have a ce mark shouldn't have one.

See this page – down near the bottom under IMPORTANT NOTE **LINK**

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Will CE marking be of much interest after Brexit and will something else replace it?

Can anyone remember what happened before the EU got involved?

Brian

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Ajohnw on 29/12/2016 16:42:36:

Posted by John Stevenson on 29/12/2016 16:33:12:

Have you read it or has your keyboard got diarrhea again ?

Yes I had and just did so again. Inadequate and uses the word opinion and some strength aspects that also come across as opinion.

John

–

How did you manage to read a book that earlier you didn't know existed. ?

Book, not web site.

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Not sure a book for designing miniature boilers would eliminate the Darwin factor…

**LINK**

Enjoy

Steve

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by David Jupp on 29/12/2016 16:46:04:

Posted by Ajohnw on 29/12/2016 13:13:49:

I'd like to see some proof that things that don't need to have a ce mark shouldn't have one.

See this page – down near the bottom under IMPORTANT NOTE **LINK**

I hadn't seen it stated like that anywhere. One aspect that struck me but only by being pedantic is that some steam pressure vessels probably do need to meet EU regs so it could be argued that ones that fall out of their scope due to size etc could use it as well as it meets that EU requirement. It covers all sorts of things such as certificates of conformance on parts from external suppliers.

I'd guess that the lawyers would have a wonderful time with that.

Also didn't some one mention that on the boiler that started this thread no one would buy if it didn't have ce on it or something to that effect?

John

–

[Author]

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