Spot the fake

[jann westParticipant @jannwest71382]

on the topic of "what difference does it make … they all measure the same anyways"

Someone on youtube (AvE) did a teardown comparison of authentic v. knock off and IIRC found that there were very real differences in the battery draw when "powered off", and the subsequent deterioration of measurement accuracy with a deteriorated battery in the fake.

Me … I solve the problem by using a vernier scale caliper and the ol' number 2 eyeball … surprising how many people can't.

[Jim NicParticipant @jimnic]

In these days of convincing cheaply made copies of expensive products, it would seem that if owning a Mitutoyo caliper is important to you, it would be wise not to try and get it on the cheap but to deal with a reputable supplier. You will undoubtedly have to pay more than if you took a chance with a "bargain" but that, surely, is the cost of having high grade equipment. (I make no judgement on whether Mitutoyo calipers are better enough than Aldi specials to be worth the extra.)

Jim

[HillclimberParticipant @hillclimber]

Posted by Tractor man on 15/01/2018 20:19:15:
The video.on YouTube detailing some of the errors is now out of date as the fakers watched it too and pulled their socks up.

*the market responds*

[Tractor manParticipant @tractorman]

Here are the caliper heads for comparison. The one on the left is a fake while the one on the right was bought direct from a mitutoyo dealer.

One poster was correct about the width of the line printed at the lower end of the scale, it's thicker on the fake.

The battery cover is also a giveaway, on the fake it is just a cover and on the genuine it has absolute printed into the plastic.

The batteries supplied with the fake are LR44 not SR44 even though the card they come in has mitutoyo printed on it.

The display when in imperial has the caring decimal placing.

The slide locking screw is clumsy compared to the original.

The genuine one weighs 6 grammes more than the fake and you can feel the difference in your hand.

The paperwork is very well copied so don't look too deeply there.

It's like playing those spot the difference games in the paper.

My 20 year old caliper for comparison too. Still works good as new.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

What makes this very difficult is that mitutoyo have changed the design over the years, clearly the fakers are playing a game of catch up constantly, it wont be long before you start seeing fakes with the new battery cover.

I have a design which looks similar to the fake but doesn't have the "ASOS" thing printed on the end either, probably because it's a few years old now. The inside measuring jaws don't look right on the fake as well.  

But I think I bought it from either Cromwell or MSC at full price.

The battery seems to last forever, so i'm tempted to feel as though it's probably genuine, the grinding and finish on the jaws is neat, sharp points and very smooth. 

I've only ever broken one part and that is the thumb wheel carrier, I kept the thumb wheel and bought some replacement parts.

The only thing you can count on is that buying from an assured dealer is the safest option, just stump up whatever it costs and don't try to skimp off a few pounds by going elsewhere, that's the attitude that keeps the fakers in business.

Michael W

 

Edited By Michael-w on 16/01/2018 11:57:17

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

My son bought a supposedly genuine Mitutoyo caliper off the Bay a couple of years ago at a 'sale' price, i.e. not far off full price.

He then realised it was fake & got his money back with no question, I have no reason to believe the trader is not still selling these counterfeit items.

Tony

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by jann west on 16/01/2018 10:11:38:

on the topic of "what difference does it make … they all measure the same anyways"

Someone on youtube (AvE) did a teardown comparison of authentic v. knock off and IIRC found that there were very real differences in the battery draw when "powered off", and the subsequent deterioration of measurement accuracy with a deteriorated battery in the fake.

Me … I solve the problem by using a vernier scale caliper and the ol' number 2 eyeball … surprising how many people can't.

Someone did a really detailed article in MEW

Found increasing cost largely means increased battery life, better temperature stability and much nicer 'feel'.

The 'absolute' aspect of some types is good too.

Neil

[VicParticipant @vic]

There is clearly a difference between a cheap calliper and a Mitutoyo but you have to use both to see it. Claiming “my cheap calliper works fine” doesn’t really say anything.

[MM57Participant @mm57]

My (I'm completely convinced it's a genuine 500-196-20 – bought from Machine DRO) caliper looks absolutely just like the one on the left (i.e the alleged fake) apart from it having 5 full size digits as per the one on the right.

I've had it for around 4 years, still running on the original SR44 battery and I've probably left it on overnight at least 50 times in those years, so the power consumption off or on must be pretty small.

Edited By MM57 on 16/01/2018 15:58:30

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

A big firm orders 1000 calipers from their local friendly engineers, sending them working drawings etc. The firm goes ahead and fulfils the order, and has 100 extra (made to cover any rejects).

These extras find their way onto x-bay, at half the going rate, avoiding intermediate dealer profit margins.

I have no doubt that this is less than honest, but does it make the extras 'fakes' ?

Cheers, Tim

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

I can't get over how similar the 20 year old one looks to my Kennedy (from Cromwell Tools) of similar age. The only visible difference is the name printed on the casing. It seems to be a very good copy of the Mitutoyo. I don't think it has needed more than 3 or 4 batteries in all that time, although it has been asking for another for the last few months.

Brian

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Posted by Tim Stevens on 16/01/2018 16:12:28:

A big firm orders 1000 calipers from their local friendly engineers, sending them working drawings etc. The firm goes ahead and fulfils the order, and has 100 extra (made to cover any rejects).

These extras find their way onto x-bay, at half the going rate, avoiding intermediate dealer profit margins.

I have no doubt that this is less than honest, but does it make the extras 'fakes' ?

Cheers, Tim

Yes, because without a genuine Mitutoyo serial number, they are illegitimate knock offs being passed of as genuine Mitutoyo product which they are not. Mitutoyo will not honour any servicing arrangement or guarantees and potential buyers will have been deceived by the seller which is fraud.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

 

Just had to go out and check mine.

Thankfully it's genuine

Its got Workzone moulded into the case an' everything

Edited By Dave Halford on 16/01/2018 17:24:28

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Vic on 16/01/2018 13:38:09:

There is clearly a difference between a cheap calliper and a Mitutoyo but you have to use both to see it. Claiming “my cheap calliper works fine” doesn’t really say anything.

It does when there are locos puffing up and down the line with components in them made using my cheap caliper.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Posted by Dave Halford on 16/01/2018 17:24:00:

Just had to go out and check mine.

Thankfully it's genuine

Its got Workzone moulded into the case an' everything

Edited By Dave Halford on 16/01/2018 17:24:28

Jim

[VicParticipant @vic]

I watched this some time ago. Some of you may find it of interest.

https://youtu.be/1yqZx_FNbSs

Edited By Vic on 16/01/2018 17:44:42

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Chris Trice on 16/01/2018 17:18:01:

Posted by Tim Stevens on 16/01/2018 16:12:28:

A big firm orders 1000 calipers from their local friendly engineers, sending them working drawings etc. The firm goes ahead and fulfils the order, and has 100 extra (made to cover any rejects).

These extras find their way onto x-bay, at half the going rate, avoiding intermediate dealer profit margins.

I have no doubt that this is less than honest, but does it make the extras 'fakes' ?

Cheers, Tim

Yes, because without a genuine Mitutoyo serial number, they are illegitimate knock offs being passed of as genuine Mitutoyo product which they are not. Mitutoyo will not honour any servicing arrangement or guarantees and potential buyers will have been deceived by the seller which is fraud.

Fake or replica?

This sort of point was raised in a TV programme about Jaguar making a small number of lightweight E types and giving them genuine unused serial numbers from the original production run. Apparently, these £1.2M new machines are regarded as replicas and will not be accepted for events in which the original cars now compete.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

That's right. They were replicas. Neither the numbers they were given or the cars themselves had any racing heritage.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by ega on 16/01/2018 18:24:02:

This sort of point was raised in a TV programme about Jaguar making a small number of lightweight E types and giving them genuine unused serial numbers from the original production run. Apparently, these £1.2M new machines are regarded as replicas and will not be accepted for events in which the original cars now compete.

That is not correct. The six lightweight E types are known as 'continuations', and are not replicas.

They are built from chassis numbers originally allocated back in 1963/4, but never built. In effect they are delayed production.

These six E types are FIA approved to race in historic championships.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Chris Trice on 16/01/2018 18:35:08:

That's right. They were replicas. Neither the numbers they were given or the cars themselves had any racing heritage.

The racing heritage applies more to the model, not to the individual cars.

The chassis numbers were allocated in 1963/4 but the cars were never built, so the six cars in question cannot have any individual racing heritage.

The owners of the twelve cars built in 1963/4 will be surprised to hear that they have no racing heritage, given that some of them have raced for 55 years.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Here y'go. This lightweight E Type for example first raced on Whit Monday 1963

**LINK**

[JonParticipant @jon]

As some one said previously if its a slightly cheap price expect fake.

Too many knock offs sold as Mitutoyo and these fraudsters are getting away with it.
£40 for what would be a good earner for them at £7 thats the difference.

By buying the fakes you are fuelling the fire.

Genuine below and current issue.
Item number: 500-180-30

Must replace mine been playing up for years.

Item number: 500-706-20

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

The fakers are parasites by definition. It's why protection is offered under copyright law. Unfortunately, Chine doesn't recognise copyright law except where it suits it to recognise it. Most of China's luxury cars are knock offs of European models.

Re: The E Types. I think most people will consider these cars as pretenders even with a number (and nothing else) that was written on a piece of paper fifty years ago unless you want to argue the vehicles existed the moment the number was written down (which they patently didn't). It's an interesting technical exercise and Jaguar would find a market for them in their own right but I agree about them not qualifying for classic/vintage/veteran status. They are brand new cars given old chassis numbers.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Is HMS Victory in Portsmouth Dockyard an original, a replica or a fake?

The Ship of Theseus paradox is an old one. It applies to you and me – apparently cells are replaced so quickly in the human body that in 6 months 98% of the atoms will be new . Scary!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/01/2018 20:26:07

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

The Cannon are fibre glass so some of it is fake.

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