Sourcing deoxy copper plate

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

As the title suggests, I need some 16swg deoxy copper plate – and proven suggestions?

Thanks

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Hi Fizzy

C101 is 99.9% pure copper, not absolutely sure if that's what you need but CES do sell it in 16 swg

Nigel

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

C101 is prone to embrittlement you need 103 or 106, see bottom of page

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Fizzy/Jason

Ye looks like C101 should be avoided as it's not oxygen free, apologies for my bum steer.

There's some comprehensive technical data on that Cup Alloys website, very interesting.

Nigel

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I see M-machine have it in C106. I usually e-mail my order and ask them to phone with total price and give them my card details then as they don't have internet shopping.

Edited By JasonB on 21/10/2014 12:24:15

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

good info – thanks xxx

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Does this mean 101 is no good for boiler construction?

Bri

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The link I posted would suggest so

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

There's a explanation of hydrogen embrittlement in copper here, in particular refer to text just above fig 16.

Nigel

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

 

So,this thread moves on from the one Fizzy started about copper. How would we class half hard copper then? Which is being sold as suitable for boilers?

Sorry that's a stupid question, suppose I should ask for metal cents?Bri

Edited By Boiler Bri on 22/10/2014 18:08:36

Moved from the thickness thread to the material one. JasonB

Edited By JasonB on 22/10/2014 18:18:35

Edited By JasonB on 22/10/2014 18:20:08

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bri, are you mixing up brass with copper as brass is often sold as "half hard" and is usually the CZ108 spec which is easier to bend and flange for things like tenders.

J

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Well I have been wrong before, but this speaks for itself; https://maccmodels.co.uk/materials-metal/copper-sections/copper-sheet/1mm-copper-sheet-300mm-x-300mm.html

This is where I buy mine from,

Bri

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

it probably means that Joe has had it 30 years so its gone hard!

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Both copper and brass get their strength from work hardening, that is by stressing the metal as happens during cold rolling or bending. As you know, copper needs several anneals to relieve the work hardening when flanging plates. I would have thought that the condition of the metal as purchased is immaterial since conversion into a boiler will heat it up sufficiently to become fully annealed. A freshly made boiler is pretty soft. Pressure testing will put work back into the boiler and make it harder (stiffer). My guess is that all copper for boilers as purchased will be half hard, if only so that it can stand handling and transport.

My tuppenceworth,

Rod

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

I checked with macc models today, their sheet it c101. Ouch now I have to start again and look at copper sheet that's no good to me😪. We live and we learn..

Bri

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Ok just got off the phone from m machine. Spoke to a very friendly lady who lightened me by 160 quid for 2 x 1 foot 3 mm and the same in 2.5 mm including carriage for c106.

They have break points for amount and also they will sell small off cuts to suit your needs.

Bri

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Bri, the copper you bought from Joe is fine unless you intend to TIG weld it?

[Brian AbbottParticipant @brianabbott67793]

Fizzy, does that mean you can use 101 unless you intend to Tig weld ?

Is there any obvious visual difference between that grades? Or do you have to hope the correct material is supplied.

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

I read the item that if you were taking the copper above 400 degrees it would degrade it? That's what will happen when I silver solder it.

Bri

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Embrittlement is most likely to happen in a reducing enviroment above 400deg C so more of an issue when using oxy/acc to gas weld or braze/silver solder teh copper where a reducing flame will create the adverse conditions. Less likely with propane but prolonged heating or overheating can have similar results.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Only, it would seem, if you are going to heat it in an hydrogen rich atmosphere.

Rod

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Copper is available in many grades. Tough pitch copper should be avoided. It contains dissolved oxygen. If the reducing (blue zone) of the flameheats the copper, the oxygen is converted into steam. This steam penetrates the grain boundaries of the copper causing cracks to form. This phenomenon is called "hydrogen embrittlement". It is most prevalent in C101 and C102. Catastrophic failure can occur without significant deformation or obvious deterioration of the component.

the above is a direct quote from the cup alloys pages. It states what happens when we heat copper and concerning the grade of copper. It's been enough for me to stop work on the smoke box end tube plate which is c101 and order some C106. I bought the C101 described as 'half hard' and without specification. I checked with the supplier and he confirmed the product as C101. If I am having my body in the vicinity of a potential bomb then I am going to reduce the chances of any thing going wrong. The purpose of my new boiler is to replace one made in the 1980's which has an i repairable leak. Safety first.

I am a competent Tig weld, however I have discarded this route as I can not find enough information about the welding of copper and I do not want to go down the route of trials and error and get it wrong 😰

Bri

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Bri, I can assure you that most people in the past had no idea what grade their copper was ( I know as ive asked). The grade Joe supplies is what an awful lot of boiler makers have bought and used and continue to do so. If it wasn't safe to use he wouldn't be able to sell it. Surely?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Fizzy as most won't be welding or using a reducing flame (oxy/acc) then it's not such a problem to use it.

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