Shed for a workshop – any advice?

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

If you can make a workshop of Kingspan reject material. This is plastic coated profiled sheet steel with insulation 75 or 100mm between the two layers, the inside is white so not only is it very cosy but very light as well. In my area we can buy rejects very cheaply,so look in agricultural dealers magazines for possible suppliers in your area, farmers use it for their buildings. Its not difficult to handle either, with a bit of planning two people can make a workshop in two weekends and it obtainable in various colours. But as others have said a concrete floor is a must, one never know what you might obtain in the future. A length of 4mm steel wired armour cable down the garden for a electric power supply and you are set for many happy years.Ted

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Sound's like you've got this one covered, if your worried about cost of heating, before the base goes in, it might be worth considering sinking some pipes under the soil there for a future GSHP project!

you can make the actual heat pump yourself, no need for one of these fancy off the shelf units that cost thousands, I've not looked but I guess there will be a plethora of information on the forum about these.

this should cut your heating bill by about 1/4 even for a naff system and upto 60% for a good one, typically a 1/2hp compressor will kick out almost 750w of heat on a cheap loo[, which should do most of the basic hard heating in a well insulated space like that with a secondary electric for boosting up to comfortable temperatures. – no point going for a bigger compressor, as you probably don't have the ground space for the pipes without boring which is where the expensive systems come in.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

One point not mentioned is Vermin, mice love insulated cavities,and chewing electric cables.any cables passing through cavities should be in steel conduit. Block any holes to keep the mice out,particulary the openings when corrugated sheet is used.

If using buried cables for the electric supply,which can be expensive,make sure the cable is capable of carrying more current than you plan you may buy a bigger machine or welder in future ,phase converters do not like voltage drops,it can be expensive to upgrade at a later date,I would say 6mm min

my workshop is divided so that dirty jobs ie grinding,power hacksaw,and mucky mechanicing jobs are done in the outer half,and the precision tools/machines are in the inner part, there is an outside door to the dirty half and then another door to the clean part, this arrangement also keeps damp wintry atmosphere away from the clean inner area and helps stop rust.I usually angle grind and weld on the concrete out side the shed to reduce fire risk

also pay some decent money for a really good padlock,I usually make my own hasps welded up from thick plate

19 mm ply on the inside of the shed is very strong and helps keep thieves out.

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

"One point not mentioned is Vermin"

Ah, this never occured to me, as you say Nigel, the OP seems to have everything covered – I have this well and truly under control. I have three very large dogs so they tend to take care of the two legged vermin and I have three cats, one of which is the size of a small dog himself, it is not unknown for him to bring rabbits in!

We do not have a rat or mouse problem )

I looked at a windmill to produce some power for background heat but I spent the money on a Milling machine instead. Well you can't buy everything, not all at once anyway.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

John

It's all getting a bit closer then!

My own workshop is in half of a double garage that I have partitioned and paid great attention to insulating. During the colder months ( November to April [-ish] ) I run a small thermostatically controlled oil filled radiator at a low setting with the objective of keeping the temperature above the dew point. I have done this for some years and find this very successful in keeping the dreaded rust at bay. I have checked max and min internal temperature, external temperature ,and humidity daily and calculated the dew point. The daily electricity used has also been measured and, as an example, last year the total cost of running this background heat was £15.50. – a small price to pay in my book! When working out there I have a convector heater to make it a bit more comfortable!

So my recommendation too is: – Insulate, Insulate, Insulate!

Regards

Norman

[Cyril BonnettParticipant @cyrilbonnett24790]

My shed is 16X 8, made from OSB 18mm thick, unlined, not bolted down to the concrete base and has stood some really bad gales that has damaged houses, uprooted and snapped large trees, the shed is now over 18 years old and this year I've been in the process of cladding it again with 11mm OSB leaving the original boarding in place, the lower 6 inches of some of the 18mm boards have deteriorated but from our recent heavy rain my extra cladding has cured the damp patches, OSB boarding really needs the edges sealed. The walls are painted once a year and the roof has tarred felt upon it. Original cost was under £300 including the 8 inch thick concrete pad it sits on. I've never had mice but some of the huge spiders that keep me company are scary, especially the one that lives next to the window, he's been there for years.

Condensation is a problem but with plenty of through ventilation (man made drafts) and 5 litres of wd40 I have not had many problems, covering my lathe with a Jewson plastic bag ,they are huge, and keeping tools in sealed plastic containers helps. My real problem is the cold, it takes some real effort to walk up the garden in the winter to the shed when its minus 6 outside and not much warmer inside the shed although there is one real benefit to a cold shed, I don't get disturbed. If it does get really cold I have a small fan heater..

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

well the day has arrived, another 5 months on!

bought from a local supplier who built it as well

next jobs are insulation, electrics and planning where the bench(es) and machinery will go

also want some mesh security screens and maybe more solid shutters for when we go away

John

Edited By John Coates on 26/03/2014 13:25:01

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

oh and guttering and water butt

and don't give me grief about the pathetic security hasp, I know I know and it will be replaced with three far more substantial items top, middle and bottom

Edited By John Coates on 26/03/2014 13:33:01

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

That looks good.

Don't forget the security of hinges, the crooks just unscrew them because it's much easier than breaking locks!

Oh yes windows are quite handy to thieves as well.

Edited By V8Eng on 26/03/2014 19:01:24

Edited By V8Eng on 26/03/2014 19:04:25

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

V8 – too true

will use coach bolts so no slot heads or hexagons for screwdrivers or sockets

also gonna wire it up to the house alarm and armoured cable back to the garage for the power

first job is computing the bench space to shelves ratio

[Andy PughParticipant @andypugh44463]

 

For security, can I "plug" a friend's web-site shop?

http://securityforbikes.com/wooden-shed-security-advice.php

http://securityforbikes.com/wooden-shed-security-advice.php

He has some proper shackles

Edited By Andy Pugh on 26/03/2014 20:08:02

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

There was a thread a couple of months back with a lot of security posts. Not sure what the main topic was though.

[Michael MallesonParticipant @michaelmalleson22793]

Insulate, insulate, insulate, and then have a humidity-settable dehumidifier running all the time (very low cost), and you will have no rust problems. If you can afford to heat, then keeping the workshop above ambient is the best way with a back-up heater to make things comfortable. MIke

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

John, nobody has said it but I would be taking the door off and hanging it from the other side unless you want to walk around the door every time you go into the building. When insulating, you will end up (probably) building out which will give your walls thickness. I would look upon the door as a starting point and set to with some timber and make it into a two inch (mine is three and a half) thick affair, well insulated, couple of thin steel plates around about where you can put a mortice lock.

Because most shed doors open outwards – a good thing, they don't encroach on inner space – it is a simple matter to put a frame around the outside of the opening door edge to create a better seal and hide that piece of steel you have going over the exposed part of the lock. I will take some pics later of one of mine to better illustrate, it stops a good deal of draught too.

graham.

[IDPParticipant @idp]

John,

Nice shed, heating is a must ~ I use a log burner, home made of course and would reccomend one to every workshop owner.

Regards,

IDP

[NJHParticipant @njh]

John

With a wooden workshop I would be a bit wary of a log burner I feel !

The key as far as I'm concerned is, as Michael says, really good insulation. My own workshop 3m x 6m x 2.5m is half of a double garage. It has lots of insulation – floor, walls, ceiling – plus double glazing. During the months November to April I have a small, thermostatically controlled, oil filled radiator on all the time. The total cost of running this in 2012 was £15.57. The function is purely to keep the temperature of the workshop above the dew point and hence avoid condensation ( and consequent rust) . If I am working out there then I have an electric convection heater which will quite quickly give a working temperature. Save things like riveting and general metal bashing for the start of a session before things warm up!

An added benefit of insulation is that in the summer heatwaves the workshop keeps cooler for longer. Of course this only applies for short duration heatwaves however can you remember when we last had a long heatwave?

 

Norman

Sorry John – having posted this I see that I rabbited on about my insulated workshop earlier in this thread. The advice still applies though. Let's see a few pictures as you get it set up – and before" whoever it is! " get's in there and makes it untidy !

N

Edited By NJH on 27/03/2014 16:30:57

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

One danger of heating up while you are in there and letting it cool back subsequently is that the pint of water vapour you breathe out during the evening will be held in the warm air but may be ready to condense out overnight. Best to forcibly ventillate at the end of the session if it is not tipping down outside or get a dehumidifier. Use the water collected in your steam engines.

BTW earlier posts mentioned layers of construction and insulation but forgot to mention the necessary vapour barrier next to the innermost sheeting.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For what its worth, this is my experience.

First shed, some 50 years ago, was a 7 x 5 Baths Portable Building, with a corrugated asbestos roof. With the bench tied to the framework, it cost a fortune in replacing glass when the thing flexed as I heaved on things in the vice.

Second was supposedly 8 x 6 (It was externally, but the 50mm framing meant that the internal size was about the same as before)

Neither was insulated, and rust was a problem. The oil put on the bed of the Myford was often milky when I next went in.

As already said INSULATE!

Current workshop is ten, nearly eleven years old, 10'9" x 6'9" (largest that would fit between the fence and patio wall, one way, and the back door and a tree the other. S W M B O was not going to have either the wall or the tree relocated!)

Framing is 50mm, with 19mm T & G outer cladding, glass fibre insulation and 12mm ply inner cladding.

Only the 3/4" ply floor is uninsulated – BIG mistake, cold feet even with industrial plastic matting.

Sits on five 8" x 2" bearers sitting on slabs on sand/cement. Another mistake, should have been concrete, preferably reinforced, to prevent slight "heave" as humidity alters.

The lathe weighs about 6 cwt, (300Kg) the Mill/drill about 4 cwt (200 Kg) (and it sits on a bench of about the same weight). Then there is the weight of the steel bench from door to the mill bench, plus tools and material.

So there is a lot of weight in there.

Roof construction is 12mm ply on each side of 50mm frames, with glassfibre insulation, with under felt and topfelt, secured with bitumen, so no nail holes.

Pent roof, is 8' high at front to allow room for belt cover opening, and drawbar removal from Mill/Drill, 6'6" at rear, to drain into guttering.  Water runs into a butt, used by Chief Horticulturist for the garden. 

Must be due for refurbishment shortly

No windows, (security and I'd only have put shelves across them anyway)

Ventilation is by a 6" fan with a rainproof outlet., and fixed vents very near to floor level.

Cost for the basic building , in 2003, was £1600, having been sub assembled, transported some 50 miles, and finally insulated and fully erected on site.

Heating is provided by a thermostatically controlled 240V 2 Kw fan heater which runs for about 10% of the time, even with ambients of 5C outside. Location is U.K. – East Anglia.

As predicted, a lot of the time, I work with the door open, not needing the heater.

Over the ten and half years life, almost no problems experienced with rust (one very small patch on a drill chuck, and another similar on the three jaw chuck)

With regard to security, as already said, no windows; the door is a second hand fire door with a six lever lock.

It is set off centre in one end, to match the 18" wide fitting bench, and to allow a decent width aisle.

I made up my own hinge bolts by turning the head off some No10 wood screws and screwing them into the door using a drill chuck, to leave about 1/2" protruding. By half closing the door, the frame is marked to drill the holes.

Power comes from the utility room via a RCD, to a ring main with eleven dual metal clad sockets (The one supplying the inverter for the lathe is a suppressed type to minimise electrical noise being fed back into the mains).

A battery back up, mains drop out, emergency light is mounted high up at the end remote from the door, to provide light for safe exit in the event of power failure.

The radio is hardly ever used, but the digital clock is useful for keeping track of meal times; as is the intercom to the house!

Lighting is by two ceiling mounted independently switched 65W fluorescent tubes, with an ex industry worklight over the vice on the narrow fitting bench, similar ones, each side of the Mill/Drill. All now fitted with LED lamps.

The lathe came with a lamp which had an appetite for the 24V 50W Halogen bulbs. Filling a couple of slots into the reflector improved ventilation and GREATLY extended lamp life.

Hope that this is of some help to any readers who wish to build or update their workshops.

Howard

 

Edited By Howard Lewis on 28/03/2014 11:51:24

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

One thing that i forgot to say was that when it is cold outside, (below 5C, a 60W tubular heater under the bench is turned on. After 24 hours it feels quite bearable in there!

John your shop looks quite good, but set up the maximum space of shelving that you can. You'll fill it!

My shelves were once the inch thick barge boards on a neighbours house. They carry all my boxes of drills, Taps and Dies, vee Blocks, etc and need to be strong.

And I am still tight on storage space!

Don't use any form of combustion heater, they produce water vapour.

Howard

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 28/03/2014 12:04:17:

<snip>

Don't use any form of combustion heater, they produce water vapour.

Howard

This is very sage advice. Don't try to put one of those portable calor gas heaters in there for instance. However, I will say that my new workshop will have a waste oil burner in there.

When I was serving my time we had a woodburner (a very, very large wood burner) and one particularly cold winter I was instructed to put waste sawdust in as we were getting very low on logs. I loaded it with what would be about a wheelie bin's worth of sawdust. Anyhow I was the recipient of a Boll***ing because this had not produced any heat. When I insisted that I had followed instructions to the letter the Boss came over to check for himself. He lifted the small inspection door towards the bottom of this furnace (it certainly wasn't a stove!) and the oxygen meeting the smoldering sawdust created a spectacular gout of flame like a rocket. Took his eyebrows clean off! It is funny now when I look back but it wasn't funny at the time, not by a margin.

graham.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Now it comes down to storage. I have quite a few steel tobacco tins painted white on each end and then marked with contents; in fact so many racks of tins that some of the racks are on hinges that are then situated in front of a fixed rack of tins. When you are tight on space you have to be inventive.

BobH

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Take care with gas heaters for other reasons – they aren't suited to small rooms., even if relatively well ventilated. One on a two sections (of three) was enough to trip a CO sensor in our conservatory which is 14×8, bigger than many workshops after being on for a few hours.

Neil

[Terence Yates 1Participant @terenceyates1]

I use a bathroom balanced flue gas heater in my wooden workshop. It has been running every winter for the last five years. All there is inside is a huge cast iron finned heat exchanger (I think). The air to feed the gas jets comes in from outside and once used goes back outside. The burners are sealed inside the heat exchanger. Been in there today, warm as toast and not a sign of rust anywhere.

Terry

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi John'

See my write up for some info that may help you, plus look in my album for some pics on garage conversion…

**LINK**

Cheers

George

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

A great source for these nice sealed gas heaters are scrapped caravans! I have a couple of these nice units – blown air central heating on the cheap, I wouldn't mind hooking one up to the mains gas at my new place once I'm in, get it running on a PLC I have kicking about and set it at calculating dew point.

[Author]

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