Pumping water up a hill

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Depends too on where in Tanzania. Place is about the size of France and Spain combined, ranging from coastal to desert to freshwater lakeside. Other than the coastal strip, the rest of the place seemed pretty dry to me. Much like the interior of Australia, but that also is very hot in the day and can be quite cool at night. Great idea for water extraction though if there is enough humidity.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Neil is on the right track. The best way to get water to the top of the hill is to let it evaporate in the sun and blow there, then condense it where you need it.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

As a whole the East African area is so varied that talking about climate in one place is not worth it. The humidity at the coast is high, maybe 100% for part of the year but just hot for another part. Go inland and in some areas desert conditions exist with areas laid waste by Elephants and denuded of trees and only dried stumps remain. Some Elephant herds travel upwards of 20/50 miles a day to feed and tramp back at night to water!

Areas above 5/6000 feet altitude are different as this is the area of rain forest usually around the Mt. Kenya and Kilimanjaro foothills. Here valleys have rushing streams full of Trout and Char whereas lower down the dams and lakes are full of Tilapia and Black bass.

Added to this is the period of the long rains and the short rains and it is this that the migrating herds of Wildebeeste and impala and Zebra follow in a cycle, each period is likely to cause flooding of immense proportion. Roads washed away including bridges etc.

Farms drill boreholes to water cattle and wildlife but a lot of boreholes are no good as the water has flouride in it which dairy cattlle pass on through their milk. Nairobi is watered from a dam, the sasumau dam which again is full of Trout, both brown and Rainbow plus Char. There are a few wind pumps that are in use and the output is quite low, pump bore of say 50 mm and a stroke of 75 mm.and of course dendant on wind.

Weather wise it can range fronm towering Thunderstorms to long hot dry periods. Travelling down from 6000 ft to say 2000 ft brings you into the humid zone. Different foliage like Coconuts and other broadleaf trees. Wildlife tends to match the terrain from semi desert to rain forest.

Add to all this is the increase in population over the last say 20 years and the enormous increase in demand for water, new settlements given to loyal citizens for supporting Kenyatta were give plots of land about 100 mters square, they stripped off the foliage and dumped it in the ditches and by doing so change the drainage and in doing so caused flooding. Then to support crops they used water from rivers and the Tana which at one time was a rushing river is now just a dried out riverbed. Subject then to catastrophic flooding.

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Had a look at the 'Drinkable Air' site, see Neil's post above and found this data.

Running at 6KWH it can produce between 4.5 to 7 US gallons/hour. These figures were measured when a unit was running in Baton Rouge. Checked the climate in Baton Rouge and it has an average daily humidity of 74% with an average morning humidity of 88%. The blurb also includes all manner of other spurious claims including that pets prefer it to other sources of water . Most of the pets we have had and many that visit prefer to drink water from a bowl that is topped up when necessary and usually not particularly clean, must be the enhanced flavour or protein content.

If near the coast then possibly similar but I dread to think what the output would be during the dry season somewhere on the plateau.

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Are there any water sources nearby that are regarded as non-potable if so would it be possible to use water from one of these in conjunction with a solar still ? The still could be located in the vicinity of the school/hospital to minimize the risk of damage/theft. The advantage of a solar still is that there are a minimum moving parts, virtually no skilled maintenance requirements and equipment longevity.

PS

Simple solar stills can be made very cheaply and probably with fairly readily available materials so even a trial system for evaluation would be relatively cheap to set up.

 

Edit for PS 

Edited By Martin W on 23/10/2018 16:21:40

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Martin W on 23/10/2018 15:50:48:

Had a look at the 'Drinkable Air' site, see Neil's post above and found this data.

Running at 6KWH it can produce between 4.5 to 7 US gallons/hour. These figures were measured when a unit was running in Baton Rouge. Checked the climate in Baton Rouge and it has an average daily humidity of 74% with an average morning humidity of 88%. The blurb also includes all manner of other spurious claims

Looks like a PV powered concentrator is out.

However, it seems the inland, upland climate in Tanzania sees a 20-25 degree diurnal temperature change,enough to reliably drop air at 60%RH to 100%.

You oly need a 12 degree change for reliable dew collection: akvopedia.org/wiki/Water_Portal_/_Rainwater_Harvesting_/_Fog_and_dew_collection_/_Dew_collection_and_storage

So, that sort of range will be more than enough to extract dew from even quite dry air in a passive collector overnight and with passive collectors you don't need to do any more than clean them occasionally.

This site gives some practical results, with a 300 meter square unit able to generate about 20 litres a day.

I'm assuming you have plenty of space and that, say 100 litres a day would be worth having.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Instead of pressure, 750psi, how about vacuum. Using the heat differential mentioned above have some hot drums at the bottom and cold buried ones at the top and the connecting pipe only has to handle the low pressure steam.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Take a look here, it says more about the radiative plastic film condensors linked in my last post

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_(condenser)

There's also a commercial wind-powered solution aimed at exactly this sort of situation:

http://www.eolewater.com/gb/home.html

Neil

[Mike JosephParticipant @mikejoseph75242]

WOW! This is what is so great about the hobby and engineers! 33 response in less than a day. Thank you everyone. Thank you!

I have passed this link to my friends since they can read these responses knowing the local conditions far better than I do.

Great hobby and great people.

Mike

[Dick HParticipant @dickh]

Google "Fog catcher" or "CloudFisher". They´ve been used in Tanzania.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

A Ram pump is horribly inefficient, less than 10%

I believe that in parts of Africa, fields are irrigated by large Low Temperature Difference Stirling engines. Apparently, the Displacer is about 8 feet in diameter. It is launched into the river, and the power cylinder drives a pump. The water acts as the cold junction, whilst the sun heats the upper surface to be the hot junction. The hose also acts as the mooring!

Maybe, assuming that the pump could provide a large enough head, this could be used to move the water to where it is wanted at the top of the hill. Capital cost will the LTD engine, pump and pipework. Running costs will be minimal (lubrication and servicing) and there is little of high value to attract thieves.

Howard

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If the conditions are right, a ram pump although it seems inefficient is ideal it uses the power of the falling water, and requires minimal maintenance, and it just works 24/7 click click day in day out. If you have moving water that's the simplest way, and it can be made with plastic plumbing fittings.

Ian S C

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

There was an article in ME 16th August 1991 about making a ram pump using stock screw fittings as use by heating and ventilation fitters and plumbers. I think later there was a another article using stock plastic fittings. There is a ram pump very near our house owned by Yorkshire Water Authority and it clicks away day and night. Occasionally some one give it a bit of attention, inefficient it might be, but cheap to run and operates when there is a power failure. John

[Nathan SharpeParticipant @nathansharpe19746]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 23/10/2018 20:05:48:

A Ram pump is horribly inefficient, less than 10%

 

 

However, if you have a flow and no power source, they are very efficient at doing their job. They will work practically maintenance free and what needs to be maintained can be looked after by unskilled operators. They will also work 24/7/365. I have one on our local allotments site pumping over 380 mtr x 14 mtr head, it supplies a 10 m/3 tank. Over the three years it's been in use only the impulse valve has been replaced . Considering that it is made from common fittings and a booster pump pressure vessel and is only 3/4"/ 22mm bore it has lasted very well. Flow is not great but is constant and the secret seems to be to pump into a large bore pipe(we use 100mtr x 63mm mdpe) to start with, then reduce the bore diameter over the remaining length . Once full this system produces .8 ltr/min , or 1.152 m/3 day . It takes some time to fill the pipework but after that the flow is constant . I'll try to go down and take photos. If the OP thinks he has use for it, I have a Green and Carter Vulcan at 2.5" drive which he can have free. It needs a new or repaired impulse valve but is fine otherwise. Nathan.

Edited By Nathan Sharpe on 24/10/2018 19:01:37

[JC54Participant @jc54]

Our village relied on a Ram Pump system for nearly 60 years but not sure of the lift or volume. They are shown in a map dated 1950ish. Very low maintenance apparently according to the then Clerk of works at local opencast mining company who installed it.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Time for some lateral thinking, move the hospital nearer to the well!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by duncan webster on 24/10/2018 23:01:45:

Time for some lateral thinking, move the hospital nearer to the well!

.

In the context … isn't that vertical thinking ?

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/10/2018 23:06:11

[Maurice Cox 1Participant @mauricecox1]

Archimedes screws arranged in tandem, pumping to a series of intermediate tanks, to avoid the screws being too long to be practical. The classic wooden version can be made with basic hand tools, or plastic tube wrapped around a drum is an alternative. They can be driven by any means you have including tread mills, they do not easily clog up, and apart from the basic bearings, they is nothing to go wrong. Just a thought.

Maurice.

[John Ockleshaw 1Participant @johnockleshaw1]

Hello Mike You might care to look at http://www.moerkwater.com.au they make village size , reverse osmosis, solar powered desalinatioin plants .

If there is a source of second class water adjacent to the hospital you would get 100 litres per hour of drinkable water. Using 3500 watts of solar panels.

Failing this the high pressure pump in the systen is capable of 56bar and maybe man enough to raise water from the river. Without the desalination reverse osmosis cartridges.

If it is not then put in a second unit halfway up the slope.

I have no financial interest in Moerk.

Regars, Johhn

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

That's going be some Archimede's Screw system as the water source is 3km away with a lift of 500 meters .

[FarmboyParticipant @farmboy]

Any system to move water 3km with a 500m lift is going to be expensive, whether using one high pressure pump or a more practical series of smaller ones. Flow rate won't need to be be high if it's replacing a 'cart with a barrel', but that's at least 2 miles of plumbing, however it's done.

Would it be possible to store more water in the wet season? More or bigger tanks might be more cost-effective if wet season rainfall is sufficient

Failing that, the water bowser sounds a better proposition; presumably the tractor would be used for other things anyway?

Mike.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 23/10/2018 10:20:03:

Posted by Martin of Wick on 23/10/2018 09:58:15:

… You haven't stated volumetric requirements …

.

Volumetric requirement was effectively stated by:

"How can a regular (no matter how small) supply be arranged ..."

but I doubt we can take that literally.

.

I was hoping that Mike Joseph would follow-up on this point ^^^

Most posters seem to have assumed that a supply of at least one litre per minute will be required; but I can see no evidence to support that; and I don't think we have an indication of the available supply from the well [is there a contention ratio to consider ?].

IF we can take "no matter how small" at face value, then a viable solution would be to use a drone, whose battery could be conveniently charged by solar energy.

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The Fluidyne pump developed at Harwell by Dr Collin West Is a possibility, It may need a number of pumps to elevate the water 500 ft. The efficiency is fairly low at about 7%, but it can be run on solar power, and it's maintainance is similar to a ram but it doesn't need a running stream, so it could pump direct from a well. The pump works on the Stirling cycle, but uses water as the piston and the displacer.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 25/10/2018 13:41:50

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Another concept suggested by the fluidyne is a pump that I believe was used in Bazalgette's sewage system. It used a u-tube in which one arm formed the combustion cylinder. The other had a long "riser" up to the exit. The idea was to get an oscillation going in the U like the fluidyne but introduce gas/air into the combustion side and ignite it at "top dead centre", thus driving the fluid column down on one side and up on the other so it overflowed at a higher level. I've not been able to find a reference, someone told me about it many years ago.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

The thing that is going to kill this dead in its tracks is cost, there is the corst of purchasing what ever you think that will pump water through a 3 km long pipe with a 500m head then importing it and transporting all this to the site , there is the cost of installing it and maybe also bringing in a specialist crew to do so . Cost of maintenance and replacement parts that would more than likely have to also be imported and you will have to have a back up plan as parts could be weeks or months away – its not like you can lob down to the local pump supplier and buy parts !

Weigh this up say over a ten year period and compare it with the cost of running the tractor over the same period , i think you will find it to be much more economical . If the cost of fuel is so high maybe be look at alternative fuel sources for the tractor like bio diesel ,maximising rain run off storage , controlling evaporation and water usage etc .

What fuel do they use to cook with ? Some food wastes can be used to make alcohol based fuels so maybe there is an option there ?

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