Phillips vs Pozidrive and portable drills

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Why do portable drills always come with Phillips screwdriver bits when all screws on sale seem to be Pozidrive? I've just been repairing a wooden terrace and been mangling half of the screws in the process as a result.

Russell

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Solve your "problem" by using the correct cross insert?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Never bough any drywall screws, self tappers, etc all generally come with Phillips rather than Posi.

I just carry a range of bits as it's hard to tell what you may find on site be that slotted, pozi, prodrive, Phillips, Torx, square, allen and the odd tec screw

Edited By JasonB on 05/07/2019 10:19:06

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Typical example of non standardization! Having put thousands of these things in, I always find Posidrive to be the best…..and then comes along a Philips head!! Have to search and change the bit, and they never seem to bite as well.

Single slot still around, and what a pain they are. Torx head Brilliant but not that common although I have put a few thousand of those in.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by KWIL on 05/07/2019 10:10:31:

Solve your "problem" by using the correct cross insert?

That's all very well but I had to visit three different DIY stores before I found the correct Pozi bit in Leroy Merlin. Perhaps it's just a problem in France.

Russell

[VicParticipant @vic]

Sadly I’ve still got stock of lots of Philips and Pozidrive screws. I try not to use them though and haven’t actually bought any for many years. My preferred drive is Robertson (Square) drive. If I can’t get those then I use a Torx. I got at least one Terminal screwdriver and they work pretty well but of course you can’t buy screws with combined heads!

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Just brum em in

Mike

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Mike

That's all very well but some may not appreciate what the expression means

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

As Kwil points out maybe not everyone is familiar with the expression ‘brum em in’. Brum is the city of Birmingham in the UK and a Brumaggem screwdriver is a hammer. The suggestion is that time is wasted using a screwdriver when a hammer will sink the screw, probably sharp practice from the days of piecework. Obviously a hammer will not be fussy about the head of the screw. These days with many screws being hard brumming them in could be quite dangerous and is not to be recommended.

Mike

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

My dad used to say " a hammer is for putting screws in, a screw driver is for removing them " One old chap I worked with as an apprentice used to call a screw driver a turn screw, and a spanner a nut key

Roy

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Mike Poole on 05/07/2019 12:55:42:

As Kwil points out maybe not everyone is familiar with the expression ‘brum em in’. Brum is the city of Birmingham in the UK and a Brumaggem screwdriver is a hammer. The suggestion is that time is wasted using a screwdriver when a hammer will sink the screw, probably sharp practice from the days of piecework. Obviously a hammer will not be fussy about the head of the screw. These days with many screws being hard brumming them in could be quite dangerous and is not to be recommended.

Mike

As an adopted Brummie, living here for more than 30 years, I would like just like to point out that this reference to inserting screws is not correct – I am not fussy about anything and everything!

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

I only use slot headed screws, can't abide posi headed anything

Mick 🇬🇧

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Boxes of better screws eg Reisser come with a new bit in every box so the professionals will have the fight one. I think Robertson is mostly just in Canada.

You can get hammer screws designed to be hammered in but have more holding power than a nail and can be unscrewed if needed. Their thread is shallow long lead and they are actually quite difficult to get to screw in.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ah a hammer, I remember those from the days before I put nails and pin in with guns

Hammer just gets used to "adjust" the position of the bit of timber these days, can usually get it good to the nearest nano or two.

Talking of knocking timber into position I'm part way through redoing a lot of work on a gym and changing room extension to a swimming pool where the previous work left a lot to be desired and resulted in chronic condensation within the roof voids. Now that the finished building has been stripped back to bare studwork, joists and rafters and allowed to dry out several of the ceiling joists have dropped out where they were hammered in tight when the wood was fresh and moist from the yard and the cowboys forgot to nail them in.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

"I think Robertson is mostly just in Canada"

Uh, no. Very widely used in USA (sometimes under the Scrulox imitator brand) and south America also. THE best head and driver design in the world, bar none, for wood screws. Try them and you will never go back to other kinds.

They were invented in Milton Ontario Canada by Mr P L Robertson. He had a plant for making them in UK as well, in the 1920's-1930's.

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

Robertson heads are quite common in the US also. We see some screws with a combination head: Robertson and Phillips. They seem to strip out more frequently than either the Robertson or the Phillips. The higher grade fasteners are mostly Torx drive now.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by Jeff Dayman on 05/07/2019 13:38:32:

"I think Robertson is mostly just in Canada"

…

They were invented in Milton Ontario Canada by Mr P L Robertson. He had a plant for making them in UK as well, in the 1920's-1930's.

That makes sense. The only time I have encountered them in the UK was on a wooden step-ladder I inherited from my grandfather. I estimated that it dated from the 1920s or 30s, and it took me a long time to identify the screw heads. Sadly, the step-ladder succumbed to the combined effects of damp and woodworm some years ago.

George B.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 05/07/2019 13:04:59:

Posted by Mike Poole on 05/07/2019 12:55:42:

As Kwil points out maybe not everyone is familiar with the expression ‘brum em in’. Brum is the city of Birmingham in the UK and a Brumaggem screwdriver is a hammer. The suggestion is that time is wasted using a screwdriver when a hammer will sink the screw, probably sharp practice from the days of piecework. Obviously a hammer will not be fussy about the head of the screw. These days with many screws being hard brumming them in could be quite dangerous and is not to be recommended.

Mike

As an adopted Brummie, living here for more than 30 years, I would like just like to point out that this reference to inserting screws is not correct – I am not fussy about anything and everything!

.

In my 'O level' Woodwork exam … one of the written questions was:

A hammer is for putting-in screws, a screwdriver is for removing them: Discuss

MichaelG.

.

Note: I may have paraphrased the question, but that was certainly the essence of it.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The most common use of square drive screws in the UK is for pocket hole joinery where "kreg" are the common brand made popular by Norm on NYWS. That's about the only thing I use them for, driver does tend to stay in the hole well.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Jeff Dayman on 05/07/2019 13:38:32:

"I think Robertson is mostly just in Canada"

Uh, no. Very widely used in USA (sometimes under the Scrulox imitator brand) and south America also. THE best head and driver design in the world, bar none, for wood screws. Try them and you will never go back to other kinds.

They were invented in Milton Ontario Canada by Mr P L Robertson. He had a plant for making them in UK as well, in the 1920's-1930's.

I first saw them when I went to Canada on holiday 20 years ago. The salesman in a DIY store (an Australian!) was surprised I hadn't seen them before. I came back with several boxes of screws, screwdrivers and bits. Beware of Makita brand bits though, they don’t fit! I sent them back to Makita with some screws and a complaint but they never replied. You can get the screws and drivers etc from:

Square Screws UK

For fittings where the screw is on display, like coat hooks for example Square drive look so much nicer than Pozidrive screws.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

As soon as you use posidrive or phillips in an electric drill, it becomes normal to have to throw away the bits after every dozen screws. I always buy my pozidrive #2 bits in boxes of 25 at Screwfix. They are made of "S2" steel, whatever that is.

The square drive screws are excellent, although I personally favour torx.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

It's not just simple Phillips / Posidrive. Two fairly common variations are the Japanese JIS which is close to phillips but less pointed. Then there is Supadriv which neither Phillips or Posidriv fit properly. JIS headed screws are often identified by a dimple on the head.

More esoterically there is RIBE/Polydrive (used on FCA nd GM vehicles) and Spline which look a bit like Torx. As an aircraft engineer I have also had to deal with Bristol spline TorqSet, Triwing and Hi-Torq.

Robert G8RPI.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 05/07/2019 19:33:22

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by old mart on 05/07/2019 17:04:20:

As soon as you use posidrive or phillips in an electric drill, it becomes normal to have to throw away the bits after every dozen screws. I always buy my pozidrive #2 bits in boxes of 25 at Screwfix. They are made of "S2" steel, whatever that is.

The square drive screws are excellent, although I personally favour torx.

Well there is your problem, a box of Sh**2 bits will not last as long as a single decent bit costing more than the box full of Titan brand

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 05/07/2019 17:07:42:

As an aircraft engineer I have also had to deal with Bristol spline

.

Do you happen to know of a reasonably priced supplier [to the UK]

… I have a set of small keys, but need a couple of larger ones.

MichaelG.

[Author]

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