New or Old Super 7?

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

I noticed this Myford Super 7 on eBay. Although green, it comes on a grey stand. The owner tells me that it is from 1993, though the headstock oiler suggests much earlier. I wondered whether anyone could clarify whether this was an option in the nineties?

Many thanks,

Mike

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

The ebay item is 173462311450

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

The link to the machine is https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173462311450

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Not sure about the actual question but I wouldn't buy a lathe without viewing it first, does the swarf come free?

Tony

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

My question is, do you think the lathe’s age of 1993 is genuine?

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

I had arranged to view the lathe today, but there are too many things that, with my very limited experience on myford lathes, seems ‘wrong’ for the age. My experience only comes from internet searches, and of course, lathes.co.uk.

I expect there are plenty of people on the forum with greater knowledge. I’m hoping someone may be able to advise me. I’d be grateful for any advice or views from forum members

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

1993 probably not, ask for the serial # to confirm, also a closer look at the photos suggests some of the covers etc. have been re-painted.

If you have limited experience of machine tools how are you going to avoid a lemon?

Tony

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

Mike if the lathe has an oil resorvoir above the mandrel with a site glass it is a Mk 1 discontinued in 1958.The lathes after this had an oiler on the side feeding a wick the Mk 2 .I hvae a Mk1 and they were grey.I also have a large bore S7 with the wick fed oiler but I still prefer the old oiler which were discontinued because of cost of the complicated casting.Check the paint .

Frank

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

Many thanks for your replies.

Tony, my experience of Myfords is very limited, though I have a reasonable experience of machine tools and in particular toolmaking. What would you look for regarding wear in a non-reconditioned Myford?

Frank, the lathe doesn't use the glass reservoirs above the bearings, instead it has a circular viewing window just to the left of the chuck. I suppose my question is, would these ever have been fitted to models as late as 1993? Also, the belt cover has the embossed Super 7, unlike most of the later green lathes, and the tailstock has the quill locking lever of an earlier model, I believe.

Mike

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Have a look at the section entitled 'METAL LATHES – A BEGINNER’S GUIDE to SELECTING and BUYING' on lathes.uk, plenty of advice there.

As a machinist you need to view the lathe in person get it to run & get a feel for it. Chuck needs to come off, spindle to be checked for wear & run out, slides all over need checking for wear. Run the lathe through the speeds, back gear included & check the gearbox functions properly.

Tony

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Mike Donnerstag 1 on 16/08/2018 07:20:08:

My question is, do you think the lathe’s age of 1993 is genuine?

 

 

As suggested earlier in the thread, ask the seller for the serial number, then check that against the records on the Myford website.

Edited By David Standing 1 on 16/08/2018 08:40:26

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The serial number should be stamped on one of the shears at the right-hand end of the bed. A quick look on Lathes.co.uk will then tell you the year the bed was made. Machine looks like a possible "bitsa" with several different shades of green paint. Appears not to have been too badly abused though, as far as one can tell from photos.

Big thing to look for is bed wear about six inches from the lefthand end of the ways. General slop in the slides, leadscrews, half nuts etc should give an indication of mileage too. Countershaft bearing bush wear is another tell-tale sign of a few miles up. (Although they are often replaced).

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Deffo not 1993, I've got a (very nearly) identical machine dating to 1953. Giveaway is the oil reservoir RHS and above front main bearing, the circular window and screw above it are an oil needle valve and drip witness window which allow the oil to drip into the front taper bearing. Silly idea, you have to remember to turn the oil off each time you walk away, but it is of its time. It's also got the early Mk1 clutch (the cast iron horseshoe type).

The other tell tale is the knurled screw knobs on the back gear and tumbler gear levers – shortly after this model these became spring loaded but these screw in and out to lock them in position.

I fancy the lead screw half nut lever is off an ML7, but I could be wrong. Mine is machined (straight taper shape) not as cast (handle shaped).

The gear box is worth 1/3rd the asking price if it is in sensible working condition, I'd have thought the price wasn't far off the mark but bear in mind this m/c is 60 years old! I'm not sure which gearbox it is, can't tell from the pictures if is Mk1 (so contemporary with the lathe) or Mk2. Plenty of stuff on here (search metric threading threads) to explain the difference. Green paint isn't original, but if someone loved it enough to re-paint it that's a good sign.

Could be a nice machine if the bed isn't too badly worn. Tell tale marks as of chewing the bed under the chuck and hacksaw cuts tell a story – need more close up pictures to get a flavour of the care (or otherwise) this m/c has encountered on its travels.

Not sure about the stand. Quite apart from the colour mis-match. I believe that the Dewhurst switch was originally mounted on the front of the stand LHS, not mounted through the label as here. Lathes.co.uk piccy's seem to confirm.

If I was selling mine I'd want £1500 or so (no I'm not!!!!) so I don't think this is too far out of order, even sight unseen.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Looks like it has a Grip-Tru chuck. Nice.

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Yeah i would treat that one with suspicion……even the serial number will only confirm the age of the bed.

Saying that i wouldn’t get too hung up on age, have recently picked up a 50’s Myford and it’s the nicest one ive ever had (and iv’e had a few).

The later ones are desirable for the larger headstock bore and powered cross feed, but doesnt mean they might not be worn out.

Buy on condition not age unless you truly need the later features. The one i have will be for sale soon, but is very well tooled and as said in great condition, still wearing original Myford paint, so possibly out of budget. Drop me a PM if you want more details, photo’s etc. Kettle is always on if you fancy a look.I’m in Leeds btw, so not a million miles from the ebay one if you did wish to compare the two.

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 16/08/2018 10:24:58

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

Thanks to all of you chaps – I didn't expect quite so much useful information.

I decided not to view this particular Super 7 as I'd read on lathes.co.uk that the Super 7 had several improvements during its lifetime and I had been told that this particular one was 35 years younger than it was. Not a good place to start.

The search for an honest Super 7 continues! I'm looking for one with minimal bed wear (I understand this is the most costly fault to remedy) at a fair price, ideally with a gearbox.

Alan: I've added you as a friend, which I assume is how I send you a private message. Let me know if I'm wrong (I only joined this morning!)

Once again, many thanks to you all,

Mike

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Have sent you a PM Mike, click on the envelope (inbox) at the top of the page.

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 16/08/2018 10:45:14

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Alan Waddington makes a most important point, that the serial number only tells you the age of the bed.

Many Myfords nowadays have been rebuilt with a mixture of parts

The bed may well have a late serial number, and the seller may have looked this up, but the headstock is an old Mk 1

As an aside, notice the cabinet has a shallow drip tray, not the later deep one.  Don't know when they changed them, but the last lathe I saw with a shallow tray was a 1948 model

 

Edited By Robbo on 16/08/2018 11:44:05

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Having looked at the fleabay Myford, I would say it's what "Bargain Hunt" experts would call a 'marriage' of parts, just like Robbo has suggested. I rushed to buy my new Myford from a local shop in Brighton just before VAT came in smothering almost eveything in tax. 'Value'? Maybe to the Government but not to the rest of us who get mugged every time we open our wallets. Anyway, mine is grey and the rectangular recess around "Super 7" on the main belt cover is pale creamy – yellow, similar to Fobco drills. My S7 has tiny oilers on front and back mandrel bearings, exactly the same as the 2 on the countershaft and a further 2 on the tailstock and another 2 or 3 on the saddle. The stand doesn't have that enormous plate, top centre; only a small version. Finally the serial no. of mine is SK109391B and it is a plain changewheels type – the " B" does not indicate that it is a gearbox model.Back in the 60's, local shops apparently retailed Myford lathes and every accessory you wanted. The Brighton one ("Airds&quot changed to what I call a screwdriver shop and changed again and is now flogging bagels! Back to topic, I hope that what I and others have stated reveals that Myford to be a fake youngster!

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

Many thanks once again.

Does anyone have any comments on this one in Chesterfield that I'm viewing tomorrow:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-Super-7-Lathe-recently-stripped-and-painted/153136625151?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

What attracts me to this one is, firstly that it seems 'honest' (in spite of the repainting), but also that it has a 3-phase motor and inverter (an arrangement I understand works much better than single phase, and gives variable speed) and a good set of quick-release tool holders. No gearbox though, unfortunately. Obviously I'll find out more about any wear when I view the lathe.

Once again, any advice very gratefully received.

Mike

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

I'm not sure that link will work. The ebay item number is 153136625151

Mike

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Its already a hundred and fifty quid cheaper if is offered elswhere….

Find out where, and see what he is really wanting for it.

I would still buy a Raglan 5”, in very good condition, for probably less than that starting price….

Edited to note that a QCGB would make this one a good deal dearer!

Edited By not done it yet on 16/08/2018 14:29:06

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

It looks real nice – but it's been "rebuilt" and repainted. So who knows? Sometimes "rebuilt" is a double-edged sword. Much depends on the competence of the rebuilder. Some machines end up worse off after a rebuild. As with buying a used car, look at the current owner as much as the machine. How is his workshop? What kind and quality of work does he seem to do there? Is he experienced or a beginner unaware of his own limitations?

Take a 12" steel ruler ( a good thick one like off a combination set, or a toolmakers ruler) and set of feelers so you can measure the wear on the bed. This one is a "narrow guide" model so most of the wear is likely to be on the rear vertical surface of the front shear, the one that takes the pressure from cutting. Most wear will be in that zone 4 to 12 inches from the left end of the shears. If wear there is .003" or more, it's time for a regrind, according to Myford's reconditioning brochure from back in the day. They allow a little more wear at .005" on the top surface of the shear.

Of course, being a narrow guide bed does leave you the possibility of doing the wide guide conversion and giving a worn bed a new lease of life. But then your hobby becomes lathe restoration, not making model engines etc.

Edited By Hopper on 17/08/2018 01:19:21

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

Great advice, Hopper – many thanks!

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