New Mill – Starter Tooling

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for the run-through, Ron

'Better than expected' is nice to have.

MichaelG.

[KettrinboyParticipant @kettrinboy]

Ron regarding the single grubscrew to lock the table you might be able to make a simple mod to improve it by adding another screw at 180 deg to balance the clamping forces out , my MES rotary table had one small screw to lock the table and usually pushed it 3-4 thou out which is just too much for precision work so I drilled two opposed holes with a bigger thread at 180 deg and made two small ball ended levers which are miles easier to use than faffing about with two spanners and the result was with a clock on the spindle doing the two clamp levers up simultaneously only 5 tenths of a thou deflection so well worth doing.

regards Geoff

Edited By Kettrinboy on 23/11/2018 18:14:37

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Geoff, that is a good idea, I wondered if the table would come with two locks but it only has the one.

Ron

[Martin Shaw 1Participant @martinshaw1]

Ron

As a matter of comparison here is my 4" table from Arc. The only really fundamental difference is the method of locking it which is perhaps better and it does I suppose look a little less utilitarian, but at a current list price of £263 it ought to. I have no complaints about it but I reckon yours will do just as much so I feel you've made a better buy. The photo rather highlights the dust from sitting on the rack for months, hangs head in shame.

Regards

Martin

Edited By Martin Shaw 1 on 23/11/2018 19:18:54

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Hi Martin,

Your table may have cost a lot more but it does have quality written all over it, fully machined and it looks heavy duty. I bet it is spot on accurate straight out of the box and the two downward acting clamps is the way to go as they dont put any side loads into the table. Seeing the machined centre on the table did it come with any inserts for alignment to the spindle and work piece positioning etc.

Ron

[Martin Shaw 1Participant @martinshaw1]

Ron

No it didn't come with anything so I made a suitable device, turned on my Cowells ME90. The hole in the centre of the table is 24mm in dia so I turned a 10mm spigot, for mounting in a collett, on the end of a bar finished to be a snug fit in the table centre. In use manipulating the X and Y axis so that it entered the hole with no interference was actually fairly easy. The second pic shows it in use to locate the fortunately 12mm radius cutouts in the frames of a 7mm models of a GCR 9N 4-6-2 tank locomotive which needed made 14mm radius. It seemed to work out so maybe I do know something about this engineering lark.

Regards

Martin

Edited By Martin Shaw 1 on 23/11/2018 21:55:34

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Just for clarity… the hole in the centre of Martins RT from ARC is MT2. A short stub MT2 arbor could be made to fit it. At the top is also a register, to which a backplate/adapter can be fitted. A backplate/adapter is supplied with the table, to enable the user to fit a three jaw or four jaw 80mm Chinese chuck to it. However, it has been known for some of our customers to loose the backplate if and when they throw away the packaging.

I know the Chinese maker of the RT supplied by ARC and we regularly take this table apart for conversions to stepper motor use. I also admit it is expensive, but I am unable to source an alternative which meets our requirements.

I also know the four makers of the Indian RT…. which Ron has… and I have been following it’s development since it started off with Soba. I am aware of the various price and qualities available for it. On several occasions I have been asked to consider it from the various makers. Whilst it does meet requirements of many users, it is a model which will stay outside our range, for the time being, for technical and commercial reasons.

Ketan at ARC

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Martin what may not be obvious on yours is that the 360deg division ring around the bottom of the table can be rotated to zero it if need be, very small grub screw needs to be loosened to do it.

I turned down one of ARC's MT2 blank end arbors to give a 6mm spigot and can then slip various bushes onto that spigot when it's in the hole.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by JasonB on 21/11/2018 12:24:08:

20deg slot in the head. Make slot say 1mm wider than toolbit and aim to have edge of tool bit on ctr of holder so for a 6mm sq cutter slot will be 1mm one side and 6mm the other side of ctr.

12 or 16mm shank to fit your collet and about a 40mm head diameter.

As my man says, flycutting and how to grind a flycutter bit in the next MEW which is due to hit your screens any day now.

Jason, just read your latest milling for beginners re flycutters, very informative. I remembered I had a left hand tipped tool in the lathe set I bought some time back (picture below). Now I have a green wheel I can sharpen them, do you think I could shape and sharpen this to work as a flycutter and if so what would you suggest.

Ron

[Martin Shaw 1Participant @martinshaw1]

I'm grateful to both Ketan and Jason for their respective bits of information, which I was unaware of, though no doubt if I read the instructions it might be in there. Out of curiosity I now have and they are.

Regards

Martin

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by Ron Laden on 24/11/2018 08:43:56:

Posted by JasonB on 21/11/2018 12:24:08:

20deg slot in the head. Make slot say 1mm wider than toolbit and aim to have edge of tool bit on ctr of holder so for a 6mm sq cutter slot will be 1mm one side and 6mm the other side of ctr.

12 or 16mm shank to fit your collet and about a 40mm head diameter.

As my man says, flycutting and how to grind a flycutter bit in the next MEW which is due to hit your screens any day now.

Jason, just read your latest milling for beginners re flycutters, very informative. I remembered I had a left hand tipped tool in the lathe set I bought some time back (picture below). Now I have a green wheel I can sharpen them, do you think I could shape and sharpen this to work as a flycutter and if so what would you suggest.

Ron

I have done exactly that some years ago. I used a sq. 45* tip & I took the sharp corner off to leave a small radius… works a treat for light fly cutting.

Here's one I made earlier…

George.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks George,

I havnt made a flycutter yet but I thought I would give the tipped cutter a try in the boring head just to see how it performs. I had to bend the shank down to get the tip below the head and I managed to do that cold between 3 dowels in the bench vice. I didnt change the shape or angles on the tip, just sharpened it and ran it across a diamond card.

Anyway, it seems to work a treat I used a piece of 6082 and ran the cutter at 550 rpm, 1.0 mm cuts plus a finishing cut, leaves a nice finish too. I will now make a 12mm sleeve for it so it has a proper fit in the head and a couple of the angles on the tip need increasing..I think..?

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by JasonB on 21/11/2018 12:24:08:

20deg slot in the head. Make slot say 1mm wider than toolbit and aim to have edge of tool bit on ctr of holder so for a 6mm sq cutter slot will be 1mm one side and 6mm the other side of ctr.

12 or 16mm shank to fit your collet and about a 40mm head diameter.

As my man says, flycutting and how to grind a flycutter bit in the next MEW which is due to hit your screens any day now.

Jason, do you think a 10mm shank would be ok or too small..? its just that I have a 10mm collet but if I need to get a larger one its no problem.

Ron

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It will be OK so long as you don't try swinging a large tool or deep cuts, maybe 20mm body and 5mm tool projection. This would need a 4 or 5mm sq bit.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

This morning I ordered a set of 3 flute 90 degree HSS countersink bits, its a set of 6 sized 6.3mm to 20.5mm. They are straight shanks 6mm and 10mm and they cost £4.99, not each, thats the cost of the set… and free postage.

I know, you are probably thinking what I did when I ordered them but its a bit of a test to see how good or bad they are for a fiver. If they are as bad as I suspect they may be then they can join the woodworking tools. If they can make a half decent job of cutting aluminium it will be something…..will let you know.

Ron

 

Edited By Ron Laden on 27/11/2018 14:05:23

Edited By Ron Laden on 27/11/2018 14:06:36

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Well changing the head lever and spring over to a gas strut is well worth the doing, I did mine today. With the spring the head felt quite light at the top of the column but got heavier as the head travelled down the column. With the gas strut it feels the same from top to bottom which is much better. There is one obvious place for fixing the top of the strut to the head but there is a couple of options at the bottom. You can drill and tap the base casting below the column but I was not keen on that as it puts the strut quite away off vertical. The other place is the side wall of the casting at the back end of the Y bed, but the problem there is the back edge of the table runs into the strut and you cant wind the table fully back. You lose approx 20mm of travel and with just 145mm overall thats too much to lose.

So I made up a small mounting bracket and fixed it to the horizontal section of the base which allows the strut to be placed further back and clear of the table. The strut is not quite vertical but its close enough, I,m sure the other two mounting positions work well enough but my thinking was the closer to vertical the better.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

The cheapie £4.99 set of countersink bits arrived so I did a quick test on a piece of 6082 which answered some questions.

Do they look cheap..? No Do they look to be cut well..? Yes Do they run true..? Yes

How do they perform..? Well starting with the smallest as number 1. No,s 1, 2 and 4 cut really well (dry) with no issues. No,s 3 and 5 suffered chatter but with adjustments to speed, feed and lubrication they were not too bad. No 6 the largest needed to be run much slower than I would have thought but with some lubrication it cut quite nicely.

So I am pleasantly surprised but of course I havnt tried them on steel as yet and how long they will last could be a different story. Are they worth a fiver..? absolutely, they are worth a fiver for the 2 small ones 6.3 and 8.3mm alone.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

What material? HSS or carbon steel?

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

They are HSS

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

In the last couple of weeks I have purchased 2 x 150mm x 20mm grinding wheels. One standard wheel from Ebay at £14 and a green wheel for carbide at half as much again from a well known supplier.

Both of the wheels run out of true and off centre, do I take it that this is the norm with new wheels and it is expected that they be dressed before use. At the moment I have no means of dressing them and to be fair when they are run up on the bench grinder they seem fine and you cant feel any of the out of true running.The grinder is running fine with no vibration and it doesnt feel out of balance. I did wonder though are they safe to use..?

Ron

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Ron,

I wouldn't dress the sides, only the periphery although I am sure others will tell you differently! Strictly speaking you shouldn't use the sides of the wheel anyway (although I often do for a light truing skim on a tool bit!). For dressing it's less stress for the wheels and the operator to use a single point diamond dresser rather than the Huntingdon type with star wheels. Either make a mess though so cover your machines and have a vacuum cleaner sucking up the dust as you go, you don't want abrasive all over the slides of your machines! Diamond dresser should be relatively cheap, it's a stone set in the end of a length of steel rod about 5/8" diameter as a handle. Can't remember where I got mine, was years ago but I don't remember it breaking the bank, maybe £15 – £20 these days? You can get a pretty good surface to the wheel by gently sliding the dresser across the rest, you can use your finger against the back of the rest as a guide, be careful though especially if there is a gap between the underside of the rest and the guard!

Remember to make sure you have 'paper' washers between the stones and the clamping washers on the spindles and don't horse them up to some horrendous torque!

Paul.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I,ve mounted the plate to the rotary table and although I had flycut both faces of the plate on the mill table I decided to cut it again once I had it mounted to the rotary. I used the boring head with the carbide tipped lathe tool I had modified, it really does cut nicely. I can just about feel the join between the two sides of cutting but checking it with a good straight edge there is no evidence of a step and I doubt I would get it any better.

So I have the four T slots to cut and radius the corners, had I been able to fit the plate to the lathe (too big) I would probably have turned it to 6 inch diameter. Apart from the look of the plate I cant see the need for it to be circular so I will machine a good radius on the corners and leave the sides in between square.

Edited By Ron Laden on 04/12/2018 17:26:40

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Paul Kemp on 01/12/2018 19:10:33:

Ron,

I wouldn't dress the sides, only the periphery although I am sure others will tell you differently! Strictly speaking you shouldn't use the sides of the wheel anyway (although I often do for a light truing skim on a tool bit!). For dressing it's less stress for the wheels and the operator to use a single point diamond dresser rather than the Huntingdon type with star wheels. Either make a mess though so cover your machines and have a vacuum cleaner sucking up the dust as you go, you don't want abrasive all over the slides of your machines! Diamond dresser should be relatively cheap, it's a stone set in the end of a length of steel rod about 5/8" diameter as a handle. Can't remember where I got mine, was years ago but I don't remember it breaking the bank, maybe £15 – £20 these days? You can get a pretty good surface to the wheel by gently sliding the dresser across the rest, you can use your finger against the back of the rest as a guide, be careful though especially if there is a gap between the underside of the rest and the guard!

Remember to make sure you have 'paper' washers between the stones and the clamping washers on the spindles and don't horse them up to some horrendous torque!

Paul.

Sorry Paul, I am a bit late in thanking you for the above advice.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Nice job Ron. I’ve seen pictures of a number of fixture plates for Rotary tables and they all just had tapped holes, no tee slots.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Hi Vic,

I did consider that but the main reason for the plate is to increase size from 4 inch to 6 inch diameter I will probably add holes as jobs require but starting off with Tee slots I thought a good idea.

Ron

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