New Mill – Starter Tooling

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Neil I will look into finding a larger one.

One thing I have done on the mill is mark off the approximate speeds on the control knob scale, it doesnt have a DRO and at £100 I would rather spend the money on tooling, like a rotary table for instance.

I have a digital tacho so with a reflective strip stuck to the spindle I measured off the various speeds and marked up the scale. Its not precise but it gets you in the right ball park it depends on where you position the knob relative to the scale but its within 50 rpm.

[VicParticipant @vic]

The topic of rotary table size came up on one of the other forums some years ago. An experienced machinist used the smallest one he had – a six inch one I believe – and added a supplementary alloy table for larger jobs. The reason being weight, even the six inch versions are quite heavy. We had a ten inch where I used to work and that was ****** heavy!

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Vic, funny you should say that, there is a couple of jobs on the traction engine which would need a 4 inch internal radius which would mean the part mounted outside of the 100mm table on the small rotary I was considering.

It crossed my mind to make a larger add on table, although a 4 inch radius its not such a large part so an extension plate large enough for mounting the part could work.

Ron

 

Edited By Ron Laden on 28/10/2018 09:10:18

[Anonymous]

As a rule of thumb the rotary table should overhang the table by a small amount. For example my mill table is 9" wide and I have a 12" rotary table, which feels about right. I wouldn't want it to be any larger. Another point, if you can get one that can be mounted horizontally and vertically. It can be useful:

Andrew

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Andrew,

My table is 145mm so probably a 5 inch rotary would be about right, Neil thinks the 6 inch on the X2 is a bit big. Point taken re the horizontal and vertical mounting, I can see how that would be useful as your photo shows.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Facemills..? Would I be correct in thinking that face mills even in the smaller sizes are just too heavy duty for mini-mills.

They look really robust tools but I guess they need some decent power to drive or at least more than most of the smaller mills can offer, probably more machine rigidity too..?

Ron

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A lot will depend on sharpness of the inserts and depth of cut. I would say you are probably better off with a flycutter for any large flat surfaces

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Jason, yes I have a flycutter on my shopping list.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Ron,

You have the lathe and you have a drilling facility with the mill so you could make a fly cutter reasonably easily to use 1/4" or 3/16" round HSS, readily and cheaply available from various sources. You can grind the tips on an ordinary wheel (which I believe you have?). That said fly cutters are reasonably cheap but making your own allows flexibility to tailor exactly to your needs and will give you some practice / experience in using your machines.

On your question on fuel the most common in the UK was coal but overseas wood and even straw was used. Generally though engines intended to burn other than coal had firebox dimensions adjusted to suit wood or straw. I can't think of any traction engines that were originally designed to burn oil.

Paul.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Paul,

As you say fly cutters are reasonably cheap and I was planning on buying one but it did cross my mind a while back that making your own wouldnt be that difficult and also as you say, a good little project.

It would be good to use a cutting tool which you had made yourself.

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 30/10/2018 09:33:17

[VicParticipant @vic]

For what I paid for my fly cutter it would have been more expensive to buy the steel and a blank end arbor. I do like making tools though and would maybe have made one if I thought I could do a better job. I use both HSS and Carbide in mine.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I need to get 2 or 3 countersink bits, the old ones I have are not too good, had them years and they were probably from a DIY store when I got them. I dont want to break the bank but any recommendations for type and reasonable quality would be welcome.

Ron

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

If you don’t want to even tax your accounts, why not turn your tool holder to the appropriate angle and use the same cutting tools as you already have? Handy, but not exactly a priority, for me.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I want to use them on the mill.

[Mark Elen 1Participant @markelen1]

Hi Ron,

I ended up buying the single edge cutting counter sinks from Zoro individually. Not the cheapest option, but they do the job well. (I’m still saving up for the big one)

Most of the usual suspects do a set, although I don’t know about the quality.

Cheers

Mark

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I quite like the Ruko 3-flute ones again not the cheapest. The set of six that ARC do are a similar style and seem OK though I have not used them that much and works out about the same a two Ruko ones would cost

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Well I had a bit of a spring clean in the shop this morning, with a shop as tiny as mine I have to do it about once a week or I end up knee deep.

I laid out the mill tooling I have so far, following advice from you guys I have only purchased tools to cover the jobs as they come along, I have bought nothing extra. I think that is good advice for beginners as looking at the tooling so far, which is not much I know it is amazing when I think what jobs I have done with just these few tools. Jason and Andrew telling me to start with just a 6 & 10 mm end mill was spot on, they have covered all I have done so far. I have since got myself a 10mm carbide 2 flute Al cutter but that was only because my choice of TiN 4 flute cutters was not the best choice for ali but they do work.

So more tooling as future jobs come along, I will probably be getting a set of parallels which I need and a small rotary table next as I know there are parts that will need them.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I have ordered the cheapie 100mm rotary table from Warco, at £56 I thought I would give it a go. What it will be like I dont know but speaking to Warco they said it is surprisingly well made (I guess they would say that). I know Paul said he had a cheap 100mm table and it was rubbish with an 0.008" pull off centre when it was locked down.

I,m keeping my fingers crossed that it will be ok, but if not I,m quite prepared to try and improve it if I can, at the price its worth a try. I know 100mm is small but if the table is something like or I can get it to be then I plan on making a 150mm pallet plate for it.

So its fingers crossed.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I was going to buy a fly cutter but seeing as I have some steel round bar I thought it a good little project to make one.

It will be simple and just a copy of the ones I have seen in the catalogue,s, a couple of questions though if someone wouldnt mind checking their cutter. The tool location is off centre, does the slot start at the centre or a little further out. Also, the tool angle..20 degrees or there abouts..? Its a bit difficult to see from the catalogue pictures.

Thanks

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 21/11/2018 10:51:38

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Ron Laden on 21/11/2018 10:45:39:

I was going to buy a fly cutter but seeing as I have some steel round bar I thought it a good little project to make one.

It will be simple and just a copy of the ones I have seen in the catalogue,s, a couple of questions though if someone wouldnt mind checking their cutter. The tool location mount is off centre, does the slot start at the centre or a little further out. Also, the tool angle..20 degrees or there abouts..? Its a bit difficult to see from the catalogue pictures.

Thanks

Ron

Depending on origin of holder, I would suggest keeping the tool bit angle between 15 ~ 18 degrees. The fly cutter holders are generally between 19 ~ 20 degrees.nominal… There are other angels to be considered too.

Look out for discussion on the tool bit in the next issue of MEW…. by Jason.

Ketan at ARC.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

20deg slot in the head. Make slot say 1mm wider than toolbit and aim to have edge of tool bit on ctr of holder so for a 6mm sq cutter slot will be 1mm one side and 6mm the other side of ctr.

12 or 16mm shank to fit your collet and about a 40mm head diameter.

As my man says, flycutting and how to grind a flycutter bit in the next MEW which is due to hit your screens any day now.

[Kevin DParticipant @kevind]

Hi Ron

Did I see a 50mm boring head on the mill table? Machine up an adapter to fit it and use a broken HSS tap shank for the cutting tool. The cheap and quick solution will leave more time for projects. Keep it sharp and do not overload the head.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by JasonB on 21/11/2018 12:24:08:

20deg slot in the head. Make slot say 1mm wider than toolbit and aim to have edge of tool bit on ctr of holder so for a 6mm sq cutter slot will be 1mm one side and 6mm the other side of ctr.

12 or 16mm shank to fit your collet and about a 40mm head diameter.

As my man says, flycutting and how to grind a flycutter bit in the next MEW which is due to hit your screens any day now.

Jason, I assume that will be issue 275 December, I have this afternoon subscribed to MEW and the first one I have is 274. Thanks for the info above by the way.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thinking more about making and adding a 150mm adaptor plate to the 100mm rotary table, I wondered if there is an accepted or standard layout for the plates fixing holes. I was thinking of just placing the holes at 15mm centres along 8 radial lines set at 45 degrees. I then got to thinking would it be more useful to have 4 T slots each set at 90 degrees with some additional fixing holes added in between or would the T slots alone cover most jobs..?

Would be interested to know what you guys that use tables think.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

My Warco 100mm rotary table arrived this morning, should anyone be considering one it may be of interest to know what I found with mine.

At £56 which includes VAT and delivery I was expecting the table to look cheap and possibly nasty but I was pleasantly surprised. Obviously it doesnt look like a table costing five or six times the price but for the money it could look a lot worse.

After cleaning off the protective gunge I did a few checks. Turning the drive handle felt very smooth all the way around a full rotation of the table with no tight spots. There was however a few thou of end float in the drive spindle plus a similar amount of backlash when rotating the table by hand. There was no float when pushing the table from side to side plus no lift between the table and base so that was good.

I then stripped the table down to see what was what and if there was any adjustment available. Adjusting the drive spindle end float is easy to do by taking up any slack with the graduated drive boss which is held by a single grub screw. The adjustment for the table backlash is made by adjusting the mesh of the drive gears and the way this is done is crude to say the least. The geared drive spindle runs in a tubular housing which has a square fixing flange, this is fastened to the base by 4 caphead screws. There is a grub screw in the base casting which when screwed in contacts the outside of the spindle housing and pushes it closer to the table gear despite the housing been fixed to the base by 4 screws. Very crude and not too good on the engineering front but having said that it works.

I played with the adjustments for some little while to get a balance between the feel and operation of the drive handle and a reduction in any play or backlash at the table. Checking with a dial gauge I managed 0.001" end float on the drive spindle and between 0.001" and 0.002" rotational backlash on the table, it varied around the full 360 degrees. Also the table lock acts horizontally on the side of the table and this pushed the table off centre by 0.002" when locked.

So all in all I think the table is good when you consider the price, I dont think you could expect much better. I am going to look into improving the gear adjustment and I am going to make and add a 150mm adaptor plate to it.

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