New Mill – Starter Tooling

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Jason, when I come to fit them I will probably do all 3 axis.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by not done it yet on 10/10/2018 09:55:24:

If I were you, I would be waiting and make up my own mind after finding out what is available and what you will actually need.

By following the advice of abc or xyz here, on the forum, you may end up with either something you didn’t want, or something you won’t ever need.

I am a beginner ndiy and I did start the thread by saying I had a limited budget and didnt want to buy things I may never use. As far as I can see I think the advice the guys have posted here took that into consideration. There are a lot of very experienced people on the forum that seem to be happy to pass on their knowledge to the beginner. To be honest the way I was thinking of making a start with the mill would in hindsight have taken me down the wrong path but the help I,ve received on starting this thread changed my thinking.

I do wonder sometimes if asking the same old beginners questions one becomes a bit of a pain, but so far I have never experienced that, or at least I dont know about it.

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/10/2018 11:02:46

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

How important is knowing the spindle speed when milling..? The SX2P doesnt have a speed DRO as standard but a plug in one is available, there is even a bracket to fit it too. Using the mini-lathe I dont always refer to the DRO, I sort of got into the habit of setting a speed by eye for the size and type of material and tweaked it up or down depending on the cut. I tend to use it more when parting and producing more than one part, making a note of the speed that worked best.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

If it's about £30 an axis, it's probably worth doing all three rather than just 2. I woudln't like to say which axis I use most – the whole point of a mill is working in 3 dimensions.

I'm sure the reduction in wasted material plus the increased pleasure of being able to work faster, more accurately and more confidently has easily been worth fitting DROs to my machine.

That said, it's a retro fit you can do at any time.

Neil

[John Paton 1Participant @johnpaton1]

A thing I use a lot (in conjunction with the milling vice in particular) is one or two sets of steel parallel bars.

The ones I use most frequently are a pair of thin ones which go across the vice so that work is gripped by the top lip of the jaws only and another thicker set which support those bars off the milling table just clear of the central 'spine' of the milling chuck.

Used together in this way enables me to quickly and accurately set work parallel to the table and also to machine down quite close to the edge of the work for things like eccentric strap ends. The second pair of parallels can be replaced by screw jacks or pairs of roller bearings to set the 'cross bars' at different heights but my standard two pairs of parallels get used very frequently, especially to restore settings if work stats to slip in the vice as you machine it. That always seems to happen when you only have a narrow edge to grip upon and of necessity have the cutter very close to the vice – top!

Another is a can of WD40 for machining aluminium but you might already have that for the lathe.

I suggest a pair of decent safety specs if, like me, you want to look carefully when machining into tight corners – tiny milling chips seem to get to places that lathe swarf misses.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by JasonB on 10/10/2018 10:12:24:

The SX2P has no means of measuring Z height of the head only a dial for quill fine feed.This makes a Z axis DRO a lot more useful.

Are you sure about that Jason? My SX2P doesn't have a quill. It came with a rack and pinion arrangement for raising and lowering the head with a high degree of backlash so a DRO on the Z may well be useful. I have replaced the rack and pinion with a ball screw while converting the mill for CNC so no need of DROs.

Russell

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes you are correct Russel I keep forgetting that on the SX2P. But my point was that a knee mill will allow the dial to be used for the whole range of movement but you only have a small range covered by the fine feed dial on the bench mill.

Ron, regarding spindle speed read out I would spend the money on other things and like you do with the lathe use feel and sound to get the right speed..

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thank you guys, much appreciated, hope I,m not a pain with all these questions.

Ron

[VicParticipant @vic]

I think you should use the machine for a few months before adding anything. You don’t want to be fitting stuff for the next owner because you’ve decided to get a bigger mill. I’ve had my VMC mill for maybe ten years and still haven’t fitted a DRO to it.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Vic, but I have no space for a bigger mill, I only have just enough for the SX2P and as far as I can see I think it will cover most of what I need a mill for, thanks anyway.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Stevensons Collet Blocks..?, not that I want any its just I saw them in the catalogue and couldnt get my head around how they would be used.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Many varied uses for them eg

-if you want to mill a square or hex onto a bit of round stock you just slip it into the ER block and then hold in your vice to mill one face, rotate block in vice then mill the next face and so on until you have a square or hex.

– several eccentrics to turn? hold the block in the 4-jaw and set the first one to run true then you can swap the next one into position and will have exactly the same offset

– thin bit of tube you want to hold in the lathe but 3-jaw would crush it, not so if held in the ER block and then hold that in the chuck

– etc

[Anonymous]

Posted by Ron Laden on 12/10/2018 13:08:07:

Stevensons Collet Blocks..?

The idea is that work can be held in the flavour of collet you use and the block allows squares or hexagons to be milled with the block in a machine vice without the need for, or pain of setting up, a dividing head. I've got a couple of 5C ones. I have used them, but the problem I find is getting the collet to grip tightly enough. Probably down to my gungho run the cutter at its limit attitude.

Andrew

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks guys, quite useful then, I will remember those for the future.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I did say that the forum member I am buying the mill from is a nice guy, he told me he would make a box to ship the mill to me but I didnt expect this, he made a timber packing crate with a pallet base. I think it stands a good chance of arriving safe and sound !

 

Edited By Ron Laden on 12/10/2018 14:22:39

Edited By Ron Laden on 12/10/2018 14:30:24

Edited By Ron Laden on 12/10/2018 14:31:26

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Yet another question…sorry guys.

The mill arrives Tuesday and it has a clamping set, I have 6mm and 10mm end mills plus finger collets on the way just to get me started.

I am trying to decide on a vice and looking at the ARC catalogue (budget range) there are two options I am looking at. There is a 100mm swivel vice for £52 and a 100mm tilting (non swivel) for £80. The mill has 285mm spindle to table so I was considering the vice height, dont want anything too tall. The swivel vice is 110mm high and 83mm with swivel base removed, the tilting vice is 75mm high so quite shallow with no tilt.

I was wondering in practice and general milling what am I likely to find more useful the swivel or the tilt..?

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 13/10/2018 08:49:44

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I would say the 100mm swivel is a bit big, better with the 80mm and use that without the swivel base which will reduce the height. If you can find a few more quid then the 80mm universal will be in the same size range and be less likely to suffer jaw lift.

I have only used the swivel a couple of times on my vice and managed to mount angled work in other ways so not needed a tilt vice.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Jason, I cant find the 80mm universal, only a 70mm precision universal which is swivel and tilt at £315..?

Ron

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Sorry its the "versatile" not universal as I called it.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Found it Jason its 100mm, 95mm high and £95, I can run to that for a good vice.

Thanks

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 12/10/2018 13:18:33:

Posted by Ron Laden on 12/10/2018 13:08:07:

Stevensons Collet Blocks..?

The idea is that work can be held in the flavour of collet you use and the block allows squares or hexagons to be milled with the block in a machine vice without the need for, or pain of setting up, a dividing head. I've got a couple of 5C ones. I have used them, but the problem I find is getting the collet to grip tightly enough. Probably down to my gungho run the cutter at its limit attitude.

Andrew

In principle they shoudl grip as well as any other ER collet holder. Use a ball bearing nut and tighten them up in the bench vice.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Ron Laden on 13/10/2018 09:23:54:

Found it Jason its 100mm, 95mm high and £95, I can run to that for a good vice.

Thanks

Ron follow the link I posted not the SG iron one, 80mm wide and 75mm high when off the swivel and £61.20. This is the same vice that was in the starter set you were looking at when you started this thread.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Ron,

I use this Soba vice on my mini mill which is smaller than yours with only about 260mm of fresh air between spindle and table. The vice is only about 65mm tall to top of jaws and the jaws are 100mm wide. It has served me very well over the years, no appreciable jaw lift . Not clocked it lately in the vertical plane but I seem to remember it was within a thou or two over about 4" (6" parallel held vertically in the jaws). It holds firm. Wasn't big money when I bought it from Chronos but that would be 15 years ago probably, no idea if they still do them.

On another tack I also use an MT2 ER25 collet chuck in the spindle which I have also been very pleased with. I tend to do work on this machine that is far too big for it having done all the milling and boring for a 6" scale traction engine water pump and the main bearing housings, including the steel plate jig for machining the latter. There are pictures for that on Traction Talk forum. Sorry about the state of the shed but it's only about 6' square so space is very tight and stuff tends to get piled around the machine!!

All the best,

Paul.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by JasonB on 13/10/2018 10:08:13:

Posted by Ron Laden on 13/10/2018 09:23:54:

Found it Jason its 100mm, 95mm high and £95, I can run to that for a good vice.

Thanks

Ron follow the link I posted not the SG iron one, 80mm wide and 75mm high when off the swivel and £61.20. This is the same vice that was in the starter set you were looking at when you started this thread.

Thanks Jason, great, and the price is good too.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Paul Kemp on 13/10/2018 10:14:59:

On another tack I also use an MT2 ER25 collet chuck in the spindle which I have also been very pleased with. I tend to do work on this machine that is far too big for it having done all the milling and boring for a 6" scale traction engine water pump and the main bearing housings, including the steel plate jig for machining the latter. There are pictures for that on Traction Talk forum. Sorry about the state of the shed but it's only about 6' square so space is very tight and stuff tends to get piled around the machine!!

All the best,

Paul.

Thanks Paul, I intend to get myself a R8 ER25 collet set in the future. I am pleased to learn that it is not just me having to get by in a small workshop, mine is tiny a 6ft x 4ft shed so its cosy to say the least but I manage. I have a mini-lathe at one end and come next week there will be a mill at the other. The mill will sit where the bench drill did, that will now live under the bench as does my bandsaw and bench grinder, not a problem actually as they get pulled out when needed. Its a good job we dont suffer the fear of small places…lol

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