Making nameplates

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

Hi, I am trying to make the nameplates for my 5 inch gauge Crampton Locomotive ' Le Continent'. It's not a produced design so i can't buy a set. I've managed to create the artwork using Open Office. Photoshop would have been a lot better but I don't have it. I am using negative photo resist film which you can get cheaply on eBay . The difficulty I am having is getting it to stick successfully to the brass sheet. I think the correct temperature is 110 degree C. Using a domestic iron bubbles the material up. Putting the brass on the iron and heating it works better but not 100%. Has anyone any experience of this stuff please? Usually it's used to make pcbs and a laminator is used. I haven't got one to try that but anyway I think the problem would be it wouldnt go through slowly enough to heat the brass.

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Hello John, cannot exactly help you with that one but I was in a similar position of wanting nameplates for model traction engines.

I am fortunate in having a sign company locally who took my artwork and lasercut individual letters in Perspex so that I could glue them onto a Perspex background to make a full-sized pattern.

My aim is to use this as a template to follow on my Alexandra engraving machine to produce smaller replicas in brass to suit my models.

This technique could also be used to produce a pattern that could be cast in brass.

I'd already had a professional sign company attempt an etched nameplate but the problem there is the that etchant removes metal sideways, under the artwork, as well as etching the depth, which for a 5" loco would need to be quite deep to look convincing.

Brian

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

Engraving?

Alan

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

Hi , i've managed some of them, I'll put up some pics if I can figure how to. The trouble is that it's a bit hit and miss!

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Possibly an off-the-wall suggestion but have you consdiered popping the brass into a waterproof bag and boiling it for long enough to get to temp before applying the sheet?

pgk

[NimbleParticipant @nimble]

There is also a product that was used in the printing industry called “Nyloprint” that used (I think an alcohol solution) to do the etching. (https://www.teamflexo.com/pdf/nyloflex/nyloprint%20work%20manual.pdf.)

From memory using a point source light and the transparent nature of the plastic a shoulder is automatically developed, these could possibly used as patterns for casting.

This could be food for thought and investigation!

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

You could try Pressnpeel. It is a blue sheet that you print onto using a laser printer or photocopier. You then iron onto your brass sheet and when peeled back it leaves the black resist for etching.

I have used it for producing PCBs but recently made a couple of etched patterns onto brass for wood brands. I didn't manage to etch very deep, but deep enough I would think for a loco nameplate. I intend to use this technique to produce nameplates for my 16mm scale loco.

[NimbleParticipant @nimble]

How to split messages?

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

Boil in the bag nameplates? Need to roller the stuff on which would be difficult but it could work if I worked quick enough. I'm using a domestic iron but the heat control is very crude. About 1 in 4 is good but I'm half way there!

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

FYI:

I made some for a friend by engraving from artwork. Did write this up for Diane, but article was probably too long and the software was free, so has not appeared in print.

In essence, I drew it up, saved it as a jpeg file, and sent it into LinuxCNC, which understands image formats and will engrave from that.

All I needed to get was some engraving cutters, From my album, the first results:

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

I etched this after using pressnpeel sheet with the design printed using a laser printer.

I heated the brass in the oven and then pressed it onto the sheet.

I used Sodium persulphate from CPC as the etchant. It is clear so is easier to see what's happening than ferric chloride. It works best at 50 deg c.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

The etched brass in my previous post is 28mm diameter.

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

The engraved ones look excellent but they will need cnc software? Did you get them done by an outside firm? I wasn't quite sure whether you did them yourself?

I was going to go the press n peel route but reading the original article in MEW it's not so easy to get the image onto the brass either. I am electro etching using a lab power supply and copper sulphate . This works very well, taking about 2-3 hours to etch. It doesn't seem to undercut strangely. Gets plenty deep enough for the paint filling.

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

Hi , I've got a photo of a finished one but can't figure how to upload it? I'm using a macbook. Any ideas please?

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

I've created an album in Photos on my mac but when i click the icon above it says 'No albums found'?

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I engraved these for a member here…

Will PM you.

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

As you can see the result isn't professional quality but it's adequate for my model. My son did the artwork on Autocad but it took him a long time and he's good at it!. Unfortunately the only way we could reverse it and get a negative was by taking a screenshot an using that so we lost resolution.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by John Rutzen on 14/03/2019 14:21:30:

…

Unfortunately the only way we could reverse it and get a negative was by taking a screenshot an using that so we lost resolution.

Not sure about AutoCAD, but most CAD tools create text in blocks of fixed characters specifically so you don't get a negative when you mirror the block. It ensures text always remains readable, which is usually what's wanted.

Everything else can be mirrored, and an efficient way of producing a symmetric object is to draw one half only and to create the other side with a single mirror command.

To produce a true negative of a word you have to first select the text and Explode it . (Explode converts complex objects like text into their component arcs and lines.) Once broken into parts, reselect the whole lot and mirror that. As the components are now ordinary arcs and lines, they should mirror as wanted.

Of course once text has been exploded, you can't edit it as text any more. Double check spelling!

Dave

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

I've used photoresist from Ebay to etch a brass clock dial on 1.5 mm brass sheet. I used an A3 laminator purchased cheaply from Lidl and ran the thing through the laminator twice to make sure of the adhesion. It was exposed using the sun for about 3 seconds to get even exposure as I don't have a light box.

There is a good guide to doing the job here.

A couple of photos showing the developed resist and the finished product with the engraving filled with celulose paint:

Russell

[WingoParticipant @wingo]

With Autocad there is a setting to control if text is mirrored or not when using the 'mirror' command on objects.

On the command line type MIRRTEXT and change the value shown, that will then allow the text to be mirrored. Change it backl to prevent mirroring.

IIRC value 0 gives No Mirroring and value 1 Mirrors the text as well as the object.

Michael

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

Hi that looks very good . I'm finding the resist comes off in the etching. What did you use to etch it please? Will the laminator take very small pieces of brass sheet?

In reply to the other post about Autocad, unfortunately we no longer have the software. As you probably know you now have to pay a hefty monthly subscription to get it. I was using only what was available for free.

[John RutzenParticipant @johnrutzen76569]

Hi Russell, that looks a really good result. I'm still having problems with the resist coming off in the etch. I am electro etching, what did you use please? I have been trying to laminate it with a domestic iron but I find the stuff blisters if you have it only slightly too hot. Cooler and it doesn't stick well enough and comes off when etching. The first one I did worked fine- beginner's luck! Please could you tell me what seller you got your dry film from. Maybe there are different qualities? I'd buy a laminator but Lidl don't have them at the moment and the next time they do they could easily have changed the model.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Hi John

The film I used was Mungolux

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Photopolymer-Film-Photo-Resist-Dry-Film-Photoresist-for-etching-pcb-gravure/262473322396?hash=item3d1ca10f9c:m:mLOaDla06VixMKAwTwhq5QQ&frcectupt=true

I cleaned the brass first with hot water and detergent to remove any grease then with fine wet and dry paper and water to remove any oxide (not sure if that is really necessary). I sprayed the brass with a fine mist of water before pressing the film in place, carefully removing all the water by rubbing the film with a soft cloth. I have had success on smaller parts using a domestic iron ironing it through brown parcel paper, but a laminator is more reliable. I guess small parts could be stuck to a sheet of paper with double sided tape to make them easier to feed.

Etched in a warm ferric chloride solution with the dial upside down on spacers so that any residue could fall out of the etched area. Occasional agitation and inspection was done to make sure all was going well.

Hope that helps.

Russell

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